AudioMaverick
I have a large number of songs that VDJ8.2 incorrectly analyzes the BPM for. I need to either “x2” or “/2” the BPM in the Tag Editor to show the correct value, at least as I believe it should be. That is fine, but…
When I want to use the sampler to add a Kick and/or High Hat, VDJ seems to use the original analyzed BPM speed to time the beats. It is almost always a song a halved the BPM on, which means the Kick is double-beating. I haven’t yet found an easy way to correct this. I messed with a copy of the “database.xml” file with the line that contains Bpm="#.######" AltBpm="#.######", but that is way too complex to have to manually recalculate those numbers. It makes more sense to let the computer do it when someone chooses the “x2” or “/2” in the Tag Editor.
I’d greatly appreciate anyone’s input letting me know if I am just missing a simple thing to be doing. Thanks in advance!
When I want to use the sampler to add a Kick and/or High Hat, VDJ seems to use the original analyzed BPM speed to time the beats. It is almost always a song a halved the BPM on, which means the Kick is double-beating. I haven’t yet found an easy way to correct this. I messed with a copy of the “database.xml” file with the line that contains Bpm="#.######" AltBpm="#.######", but that is way too complex to have to manually recalculate those numbers. It makes more sense to let the computer do it when someone chooses the “x2” or “/2” in the Tag Editor.
I’d greatly appreciate anyone’s input letting me know if I am just missing a simple thing to be doing. Thanks in advance!
geposted Fri 25 Nov 16 @ 12:23 am
PhantomDeejay
It's not about the stored BPM of a file and if that BPM has changed. It's about the ability of the sampler to sync on a given BPM.
'Kick' sample is originally 120 BPM. It would sync "fine" for any file from 60 to 240 BPM. Out of that range it will not sync properly. It will sync on half/double beats.
'Kick' sample is originally 120 BPM. It would sync "fine" for any file from 60 to 240 BPM. Out of that range it will not sync properly. It will sync on half/double beats.
geposted Fri 25 Nov 16 @ 8:25 am
locoDog
PhantomDeejay wrote :
'Kick' sample is originally 120 BPM. It would sync "fine" for any file from 60 to 240 BPM. Out of that range it will not sync properly. It will sync on half/double beats.
90 to 180, -25% to +50% :p
geposted Fri 25 Nov 16 @ 8:39 am
AudioMaverick
I am not following... Just trying to get the kick sampler to run at the speed that I think the song should be. The speeds I am dealing with are in the range you mentioned. {Example: VDJ8 decides to analyze a tune at 150 BPM, and I choose the halve it, making the new number 75 BPM. When I play the tune and select a kick, it runs at 150 BPM. If I analyze a second tune, and it initially scans at 75 BPM, the kick hits at 75 BPM. If I edit the tag and choose "x2", the kick still runs at 75 BPM.
Thanks for trying to answer my query. I may need a little more trial and error to figure out how VDJ works in this regard! Any positive suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks for trying to answer my query. I may need a little more trial and error to figure out how VDJ works in this regard! Any positive suggestions are greatly appreciated.
PhantomDeejay wrote :
It's not about the stored BPM of a file and if that BPM has changed. It's about the ability of the sampler to sync on a given BPM.
'Kick' sample is originally 120 BPM. It would sync "fine" for any file from 60 to 240 BPM. Out of that range it will not sync properly. It will sync on half/double beats.
'Kick' sample is originally 120 BPM. It would sync "fine" for any file from 60 to 240 BPM. Out of that range it will not sync properly. It will sync on half/double beats.
geposted Sun 27 Nov 16 @ 12:26 am
locoDog
Read the post above yours, mine, the range is -25% to +50%
If you need something to fit something out of that range, take the sample to a deck pitch it up or down and rerecord it at the new tempo
If you need something to fit something out of that range, take the sample to a deck pitch it up or down and rerecord it at the new tempo
geposted Sun 27 Nov 16 @ 1:35 am
AudioMaverick
Thanks for you input, LocoDog & PhantomDeeJay. I seem to not be explaining the issue, properly. I'll see if Support can assist. Appreciate your being able to assist!
geposted Sun 27 Nov 16 @ 10:09 pm
PachN
AudioMaverick wrote :
If I analyze a second tune, and it initially scans at 75 BPM, the kick hits at 75 BPM. If I edit the tag and choose "x2", the kick still runs at 75 BPM.
This part let me think it really is a VDJ issue.
PhantomDeejay wrote :
It will sync on half/double beats.
According to the OP that is not the case if you change the BPM manually to half or double.
geposted Mon 28 Nov 16 @ 10:18 am
Adion
What is the bpm of the sample?
geposted Mon 28 Nov 16 @ 11:58 am
AudioMaverick
Adion wrote :
What is the bpm of the sample?
Adion, that is where I didn't get it... I saw the BMP in the edit panel, but didn't realize that VDJ has a limit to how far it can vary from that BPM. So, I will need to take these samples and create a slower version, say two-thirds or half speed. I also had an idea for several tracks where I just get a hit on the first beat of a bar. I have Adobe Audition, so... I just need to see how to digitally extract the existing VDJ sample, avoiding going out analog and re-recording it.
I have that on the back burner, right now. So many other things competing for my time. Sorry it took so long to get back on this. I haven't been that active on the various forums, and didn't realized the VDJ home page was indicating I needed to reply.
geposted Fri 16 Dec 16 @ 10:21 pm
Adion
Note that technically it would be possible for vdj to stretch the sample further, but there's 2 reasons why this is not done:
1. Double/half tagging of songs. Sometimes a 70 bpm song may have 140 bpm as the tag, so you don't want to double the speed of a 70 bpm sample in that case. (And for some genres it's not just about which is right and which is wrong, since it depends who you ask)
2. Stretching a sample that far usually just sounds bad/not what was intended. Even with the simplest samples such as kick this can be noticed. Try to load it to a deck and play it back at half or double speed. What you really want is 4 kicks that are spaced out further or spaced closer together, but because it is a sample and not some tracker format, what you get is also that each individual kick will be longer or shorter.
So ideal you'd not just need to stretch the original sample at half or double speed and save that, but recreate the sample using their original components.
1. Double/half tagging of songs. Sometimes a 70 bpm song may have 140 bpm as the tag, so you don't want to double the speed of a 70 bpm sample in that case. (And for some genres it's not just about which is right and which is wrong, since it depends who you ask)
2. Stretching a sample that far usually just sounds bad/not what was intended. Even with the simplest samples such as kick this can be noticed. Try to load it to a deck and play it back at half or double speed. What you really want is 4 kicks that are spaced out further or spaced closer together, but because it is a sample and not some tracker format, what you get is also that each individual kick will be longer or shorter.
So ideal you'd not just need to stretch the original sample at half or double speed and save that, but recreate the sample using their original components.
geposted Sat 17 Dec 16 @ 5:03 am
groovindj
Adion, have you heard of ReCycle (by Propellerheads)? Originally from 1994, it slices sample loops into sections....
https://www.propellerheads.se/recycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCycle_(software)
https://www.propellerheads.se/recycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCycle_(software)
geposted Sat 17 Dec 16 @ 8:56 am
Adion
Interesting, I suppose for drum loops it can work quite well, but I wonder how well it works for more complex loops.
geposted Sat 17 Dec 16 @ 9:08 am
AudioMaverick
Adion, thanks for the response. It does seem that VDJ is trying to keep the beat in a fast-dance pace. I don't want a 140 BPM beat on a 70 BPM West Coast Swing, Walts or Cha-Cha, though.
Adobe Audition (originally Syntrillium's Cool Edit) is from the genre of digital editors that Propellerhead's Reason & ReCycle. It is a straight out multi-track wave form editor and mixer, with most of the studio bells and whistles. If I could just get that ".vdjsample" file translated over without having to plug two computers together and record VDJ playing it...
Back to the other items that have become higher on the to-do list!
Adobe Audition (originally Syntrillium's Cool Edit) is from the genre of digital editors that Propellerhead's Reason & ReCycle. It is a straight out multi-track wave form editor and mixer, with most of the studio bells and whistles. If I could just get that ".vdjsample" file translated over without having to plug two computers together and record VDJ playing it...
Back to the other items that have become higher on the to-do list!
Adion wrote :
Note that technically it would be possible for vdj to stretch the sample further, but there's 2 reasons why this is not done:
1. Double/half tagging of songs. Sometimes a 70 bpm song may have 140 bpm as the tag, so you don't want to double the speed of a 70 bpm sample in that case. (And for some genres it's not just about which is right and which is wrong, since it depends who you ask)
2. Stretching a sample that far usually just sounds bad/not what was intended. Even with the simplest samples such as kick this can be noticed. Try to load it to a deck and play it back at half or double speed. What you really want is 4 kicks that are spaced out further or spaced closer together, but because it is a sample and not some tracker format, what you get is also that each individual kick will be longer or shorter.
So ideal you'd not just need to stretch the original sample at half or double speed and save that, but recreate the sample using their original components.
1. Double/half tagging of songs. Sometimes a 70 bpm song may have 140 bpm as the tag, so you don't want to double the speed of a 70 bpm sample in that case. (And for some genres it's not just about which is right and which is wrong, since it depends who you ask)
2. Stretching a sample that far usually just sounds bad/not what was intended. Even with the simplest samples such as kick this can be noticed. Try to load it to a deck and play it back at half or double speed. What you really want is 4 kicks that are spaced out further or spaced closer together, but because it is a sample and not some tracker format, what you get is also that each individual kick will be longer or shorter.
So ideal you'd not just need to stretch the original sample at half or double speed and save that, but recreate the sample using their original components.
geposted Mon 19 Dec 16 @ 4:30 am
groovindj
AudioMaverick wrote :
If I could just get that ".vdjsample" file translated over
The vdjsample file is really just an OGG file in a VDJ wrapper.
If you're happy with a spot of editing, you can strip off the VDJ header and it'll load/play in anything that handles OGG.
geposted Mon 19 Dec 16 @ 7:42 pm