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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: Playlists vs Virtual Folders - Preference?

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Hi All,

I've been trying to figure out how I want to organize my VDJ database, I'm currently just searching for the tracks I need without having any virtual folders or playlists made.

What's the big difference between virtual folders and playlists? Is there an advantage/disadvantage to one over the other? From what I can see so far, playlists are stored in M3U files, possibly easier to backup across upgrades (just guessing...).

Any comments, experiences, etc. ?
 
geposted Fri 21 Aug 09 @ 12:44 pm
I just started using VDJ a few days ago and it was confusing at first but in my case BOTH are important. I have playlist for different types of events as a starting point and then add to the play list from my folders. I was even able to load a playlist from my original DJ software.

One thing I am struggling with is finding all my MP3s and MP4's that I already had sorted into collections threw my old software. Long painful process, but it is my fault for not organizing the music OUTSIDE from my old software. Oh well, live and learn.
 
I organize all my music by Genre on my HDD, then make my "music" folder a favorite, it will show all my sorted Genre folders under there.

I just use playlists for the purpose of just that Dinner/Cocktail playlists.
 
I'm evaluating VDJ and have this very question too. A few other points that I have found:

PL's can autoload to the right side "playlist" so you can setup an "automix" easier (for like Cocktail or Dinner as he said). You can also easily rt click and "add to playlist". Folders cannot. You must select folder, "select all tracks" and then load/drag them to the playlist area. Not sure why there is not an option to quickly load a VF to the playlist area by either "autoload" or a one click rt.click option like PL's.

PL's are nicely stored in the Playlist top folder to quickly hide/minimize them. You'll see if you build more than a dozen or so VF's, your left side window fills up. There isn't even an option to sub-catagorize VF's and "hide" them.

There is no way to (quickly) sort/organize VF's. Moving them up/down is almmost a joke. PL's are at least sorted alphabetically and within the Playlist top folder. VF's are initially in the order you add them.

As you noted, PL's are saved as individual M3U files - which may be good for external apps (i've never done this though) VF's are saved within the XML database file(s). Each may have their own Pros/Cons depending what you need to do with the lists outside of VDJ.

Sooo, at the end of the day . . . I'm not sure either. IMO, they should combine the best of both and have one (best overall) option instead of spreading resources across 2 ideas.
 
djblakemiller wrote :
As you noted, PL's are saved as individual M3U files - which may be good for external apps (i've never done this though) VF's are saved within the XML database file(s). Each may have their own Pros/Cons depending what you need to do with the lists outside of VDJ.


Since it is truly a tect file, you can hand edit a Playlist any way you wish as well....to remove tracks, add tracks, or sort tracks. Or to easily match them if you physically moved an mp3 for any reason.
 
Ok, so far everyone is thinking playlists are more versatile. Anyone have any reason to use virtual folders?
 
I don't use either, my music database and video database are well organised within Windows folders.

Structure is the same whatever software is used.

Over the last 11 years I have bought and used VTT, PCDJ (original) Red & Blue, PCDJ FX, Traktor, PCDJ VJ and finally the last 18 months VirtualDJ all with the same database structure within Windows.
 
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I don't use either, my music database and video database are well organised within Windows folders.

Structure is the same whatever software is used.

Over the last 11 years I have bought and used VTT, PCDJ (original) Red & Blue, PCDJ FX, Traktor, PCDJ VJ and finally the last 18 months VirtualDJ all with the same database structure within Windows.

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This is great for your physical structure, but how do you relate to a single song that may go into multiple "catagories"? For instance, I have "I've got a Feeling" put into the following "folders/categories"

"New & Hot" (This is the currently hot stuff last 3-6 months)
"Hip Hop" (self explanatory)
"Wedding Intro Songs" (Good stuff for wedding intros)

And then i have "auto mixes" for things like Cocktail and Dinner hours - each made up of stuff from Latin to Chill to Rock to Big Band. I do only weddings and have 40+ folders that catagorize all of these playlists. Not only does it make sense, i don't have the recall memory to pull songs from my 20k library.

So, this whole concept may differ depending on what type of gigs one does. A club DJ may not may not need folder capabilities where a wedding/event DJ likely will (unless you have a sick memory and gig every track one-by-one)
 
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Ok, so far everyone is thinking playlists are more versatile. Anyone have any reason to use virtual folders?
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While i'm technically still demo'ing, i'm leaning towards Playlists too.

I'd like to get VDJ's feedback on what the intent for the Virtual Folder was/is? Maybe it does something that we havne't identified yet, making it worth using.
 
djblakemiller wrote :
Maybe it does something that we havne't identified yet, making it worth using.



AFAIK if a song in a Playlist is moved then Playlists can't find it.

Virtual Folders can keep track of where the song is, but, there are other problems like Virtual Folders disappearing.

That's why I tried both methods and gave up, I just stick with my folder structure, at least it's stable.
 
Hi

I haven't had any problems with virtual folder at all.

With PlayList I've had problems, seems if you edit something in the file by one letter it breaks the link, and it's not easy to recover requiring many steps and resaving that PlayList.

I use virtual folders by naming them for different club/events/types venues and populate them with the music/video/karaoke files for a quick start.

If you do several shows in different venues then you have a good idea what they like to hear and save those core selection in a VF.

I also experienced using a VF for karaoke shows is a great help to manage the regulars for a venue, save that search time.

Gives you more time to interact with you're audience. (Do The Show VS. Do The Search)

Would be nice to have a singers database in the karaoke plug-in, where you can enter the name of the singer and a listbox pop's up with a list for that singer, pick the song from the list and you're done.

Well these are some of the reasons I use virtual folders in VDJ.

Joey.....
 
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Hi

I haven't had any problems with virtual folder at all.

With PlayList I've had problems, seems if you edit something in the file by one letter it breaks the link, and it's not easy to recover requiring many steps and resaving that PlayList.

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I forgot to mention the issue with Saving Playlists. Definitely a check AGAINST Playlists. I actually started a thread on that a few weeks ago: http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/113872/General_Discussion/Editing_playlists_.html . That alone has me leaning towards VF's, but the fact you can't sort/sub-categorize VF's has me wishing there was a best of both worlds.

Since i haven't built out my PL's or VF's yet - I haven't gotten too much into noticing issues with moving/managing music AFTER playlists/folders are created and how easy/hard it will be to fix links. PCDJ FX had similar issues, but it wasn't too hard to re-link the changed/moved track.

I did have a VF dissapearing issue once so far, and have seen alot of chatter about them. But i havne't seen it enough to totally ditch VF's yet.
 
I share the same thoughts concerning sub folders since most people use this type of organizational method, it would only seem practical for this type of functionality to be available in the virtual folder.

Example:

1. Set up Venue Folder (Jerry's Pub)
2. Sub folder #1 (Music)
3. Sub folder #2 ( Karaoke)
4. Sub folder #3 (Video)

I'm very prepared for that Venue, only add at will to the flow.

If there is a reason why it's not used, then i'm not sure why it is?


Thanks
Joey.....
 
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With PlayList I've had problems, seems if you edit something in the file by one letter it breaks the link, and it's not easy to recover requiring many steps and resaving that PlayList.
***********************

Are you implying that VF's will relink the files? If so, how? I'm testing around with this very issue and both VF's and PL's lose the link. The track is still there, but is shown with the yellow not equal icon and it won't load - returns an "error".

But I think this problem lies with both PL and VF's. Do you have experience as to which one is better in handling changed/moved files?
 
Hi, I use virtual folder for all my organisation.

They're really handy, and to be honest I didn't really know about making playlists when I started using them!

I've had one or two virtual folders "disappear" but they're not actually gone for good, they're just hidden so vdj can't see them.

Basically somehow the "title" or the virtual folder gets "indented" in the virtual dj database file (lots of blank spaces before the title is written) and this messes everything up!

If you notice one has gone, just go to your virtual dj database file (make sure vdj is not running!), make a backup copy first incase you mess it up, then open the file using "Notepad" on the computer then either scroll through to find your missing virtual folder or use the "Edit"->"Find" menu in notepad to get to it.

Once you've found the one that's been moved across the page, just delete all the blank spaces carefully so it's lined up with all the other virtual folders (I think there needs to be 2 blank spaces before the title, but check for yourself when you open the file.)

When you next open VDJ it will re-appear!

But to be honest I've been using virtual folders for a couple of years and it only seems to happen now and again, so it's not too much of a big deal for me. Hopefully they'll fix it next time around.
 
andytaylor125 wrote :

If you notice one has gone, just go to your virtual dj database file (make sure vdj is not running!), make a backup copy first . . .


There in lies a big problem . . . you "noticing" it's gone to begin with. I'm coming from PCDJ where I maintained about 40 "folders" so to even notice one is gone likely wouldn't happen until it's too late . . . in the middle of a gig maybe?

But that's not my point from earlier - I'm referring to what happens when you change 1) the physical location of a track and/or 2) change the file name of a track. (Not the tags at all)

Both PL's and VF's lose the link to the song, though the reference is still there. Neither, it appears, will automagically go out and find the link again to correct it.

Separately, my biggest gripe with Virtual Folders is 1) inability to easily sort them 2) inability to sub-catagorize, even at the very top level (like it does with Playlists, iTunes, etc.) and 3) inability to add a track to a VF if that VF isn't in view (to drag and drop)

Playlists have similar, but different issues.


 

Hi djblakemiller

Ok yes this does happen in virtual or regular folders, if you make an edit to the file it will break the link.
But the virtual & regular folder is the easiest to recover from.

This is what I do

1. Click the folder with the yellow files
2. All file in that folder will show in the sidelist section of the browser (buttom)
3. Search on the browser for the file with yellow, filling in the name in the search box.
4. when you find it, click and drag it to the folder on the left. (1)
4. Do the above procedure one at a time till all are done.
5. Click Title bar to orginize files, highlight all yellow files.
6. Right click over one and click remove.

With a Playlist it's more involved, so if you want to know pm me and i'll explain the procedure that I use.

Good Luck

Joey....
 
My Virtual folders keep on disappearing, why does this happen. Can anyone tell me how I can save those Virtual folders so that I don't have to keep putting them back from scratch. It seems that every time I start a new folder the top Virtual folder disappears.
 
what is your VDJ version ? i haven't had disappearing virtual folders since 6.0 ......

new features ( such as these vf improvements ) if they have a following , so to speak ,

often turn up in new updates / versions , so perhaps these will also
 
Virutal folders may be the result of using an external drive that tries to go into a power saving mode or does a check.

Tonight, I switched from my Seagate exteral for videos to a Western Digital that attempts to be a "green drive". The Seagates have a program that you run where you can tell it to NEVER cut power or to do it after X hours of no activity. At home I tried this just playing around and for the first time, I lost my virtual folders for a moment and then they shorty reappeared. I tried to tell Windows 7 to keep it active and haven't seen it do that since. I do gigs with the Seagate drive. Music is on the internal drive of the laptop while videos are on an external drive.
 


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