The Soca Vault
Good Day Everyone.
I'm using VDJ with 1200's and a mixer, and I am becoming frustrated. Whenever I load a song onto either deck, and I lock the pitch slider on both decks, VDJ is still automatically adjusting the pitch on the fly. I would like to figure out how to stop this. It's annoying because its messing up my mixing - which isn't that great - so I am trying to stop this. If one song is loaded on a deck, it still does it. There is no need for this. Does it have something to do with the BPM adjustments being calculated as the song is playing, which I would like to turn off as well. It's just making my frustration grow because I am also dealing with the turntables where the speeds are slighty off. Thanks for any and all help.
I'm using VDJ with 1200's and a mixer, and I am becoming frustrated. Whenever I load a song onto either deck, and I lock the pitch slider on both decks, VDJ is still automatically adjusting the pitch on the fly. I would like to figure out how to stop this. It's annoying because its messing up my mixing - which isn't that great - so I am trying to stop this. If one song is loaded on a deck, it still does it. There is no need for this. Does it have something to do with the BPM adjustments being calculated as the song is playing, which I would like to turn off as well. It's just making my frustration grow because I am also dealing with the turntables where the speeds are slighty off. Thanks for any and all help.
geposted Mon 26 Jun 23 @ 6:19 pm
DJ VinylTouch
So I use turntables (reloop rp7000 mk2s) and a DJM S11 mixer with no real issues.
First a question:
If you mean beatmatch both decks, then as long as you have sync off, they should match - VirtualDJ does not autosync without sync on.
If you are trying to rely on the BPM readout as an indicator of being beatmatched, it is advised is to not do that. Turntables, by physical design/operation naturally have fluctuations in their rotation, which cause BPM fluctuations, which are detected by the software. Some turntables are better than others at doing that (Technics SL1200s are considered the king of that with some of the lowest wow/flutter specs available, but even it will eventually fall out of time).
If you are coming from other software (most notably Serato) it might seem like that isn't the case because they probably do some smart averaging to smoothen the BPM readout. VirtualDJ doesn't do this - what you see is its best effort at the BPM calculation at that moment in time.
What really matters is, when beatmatched (which you should always confirm by ear), do they stay in time for a reasonable period of time (maybe at least 10 seconds)? If the answer is yes, then you are set. If the answer is no, either you adjust the pitch of one of your turntables to correct it (with or without nudging), you check your needles (for dirt), or you get the turntable itself checked as it may be experiencing higher than normal fluctuations.
First a question:
Quote :
What do you mean by "lock the pitch on a deck"?
What do you mean by "lock the pitch on a deck"?
If you mean beatmatch both decks, then as long as you have sync off, they should match - VirtualDJ does not autosync without sync on.
If you are trying to rely on the BPM readout as an indicator of being beatmatched, it is advised is to not do that. Turntables, by physical design/operation naturally have fluctuations in their rotation, which cause BPM fluctuations, which are detected by the software. Some turntables are better than others at doing that (Technics SL1200s are considered the king of that with some of the lowest wow/flutter specs available, but even it will eventually fall out of time).
If you are coming from other software (most notably Serato) it might seem like that isn't the case because they probably do some smart averaging to smoothen the BPM readout. VirtualDJ doesn't do this - what you see is its best effort at the BPM calculation at that moment in time.
What really matters is, when beatmatched (which you should always confirm by ear), do they stay in time for a reasonable period of time (maybe at least 10 seconds)? If the answer is yes, then you are set. If the answer is no, either you adjust the pitch of one of your turntables to correct it (with or without nudging), you check your needles (for dirt), or you get the turntable itself checked as it may be experiencing higher than normal fluctuations.
geposted Mon 26 Jun 23 @ 8:07 pm
The Soca Vault
Good Day,
So you are saying turn off all sync abilities, which I think I did at one point and still had the same issue. I won't have time today to play with it, but I will try that. The only Sync I had on was pitch lock, which moved both pitch sliders at the same time to keep it in sync, which does not always work well. The genre of music I play is soca and there are a lot of the songs on a same beat, which would be the only reason for me to turn that on.
Lock the pitch on a deck - When you play a song, VDJ doesn't move the slider in the software.....UNLESS it's the turntable speed that is varying that is causing that, but it goes up and down and sometimes stays at zero. I wish there was a way to post the video here to show.
I appreciate the insight about beat matching, because that is most likely the issue, well the beats aren't holding for 10 seconds, at least not all the time, and relying visually is one thing, but if the beat grid is off, then its relying on ear.
I use an app called RPM Speed & Wow to measure the RPM's and I have to say that both 1200's are slightly slow, the readouts would be 33.31 and 33.30 I believe.
So you are saying turn off all sync abilities, which I think I did at one point and still had the same issue. I won't have time today to play with it, but I will try that. The only Sync I had on was pitch lock, which moved both pitch sliders at the same time to keep it in sync, which does not always work well. The genre of music I play is soca and there are a lot of the songs on a same beat, which would be the only reason for me to turn that on.
Lock the pitch on a deck - When you play a song, VDJ doesn't move the slider in the software.....UNLESS it's the turntable speed that is varying that is causing that, but it goes up and down and sometimes stays at zero. I wish there was a way to post the video here to show.
I appreciate the insight about beat matching, because that is most likely the issue, well the beats aren't holding for 10 seconds, at least not all the time, and relying visually is one thing, but if the beat grid is off, then its relying on ear.
I use an app called RPM Speed & Wow to measure the RPM's and I have to say that both 1200's are slightly slow, the readouts would be 33.31 and 33.30 I believe.
geposted Tue 27 Jun 23 @ 3:28 pm
DJ VinylTouch
By Pitch lock I assume you mean master tempo - yep that should not affect VirtualDJ's tempo matching, only tempo sync would (the general sync button). Honestly I still agree with just keeping all forms of sync, except for FX auto bpm sync, off with the turntables/motorized platters...it causes more trouble than help (at least for me)
Given that you have confirmed the RPM speed on zero BPM I would assume that your turntables are in great shape (unless the pitch control itself isn't working correctly but I doubt that is the problem).
It sounds like the problem might be over-reliance on the BPM readout - yep by default, I think VirtualDJ tries to give you it's best idea of the BPM readout at a given time, but that's all it is (particularly, never depend on consistent digits past the 1st decimal point...it just doesn't happen). The variations are minute - probably not enough for the visual representation of the pitch slider on the software to move, but they do happen with all motorized platter gear. There is one setting that I would also turn off if it is on as well - timecodePitchSliderIgnoreBend, if you want to use the BPM readout as part of the process, you want VirtualDJ to respond ASAP. Proper adjustment of the grid always helps as well (for properly quantized music)
Some skins help with minimizing that problem (variation in digits) by showing you max 1 decimal place (e.g. Vanced GT), so you can try that and see if it works for you.
I play soca as well too (I'm Grenadian), recent soca music is mostly well quantized (exception is recently live instrument type tracks where they introduce random offsets in notes occasionally to make it sound more human, but even those are still quantized), so I think the only thing is you unfortunately gotta adjust them enough initially (by software reader or by ear) then do fine grained adjustments (by ear) until they don't move - then you can transition.
Given that you have confirmed the RPM speed on zero BPM I would assume that your turntables are in great shape (unless the pitch control itself isn't working correctly but I doubt that is the problem).
It sounds like the problem might be over-reliance on the BPM readout - yep by default, I think VirtualDJ tries to give you it's best idea of the BPM readout at a given time, but that's all it is (particularly, never depend on consistent digits past the 1st decimal point...it just doesn't happen). The variations are minute - probably not enough for the visual representation of the pitch slider on the software to move, but they do happen with all motorized platter gear. There is one setting that I would also turn off if it is on as well - timecodePitchSliderIgnoreBend, if you want to use the BPM readout as part of the process, you want VirtualDJ to respond ASAP. Proper adjustment of the grid always helps as well (for properly quantized music)
Some skins help with minimizing that problem (variation in digits) by showing you max 1 decimal place (e.g. Vanced GT), so you can try that and see if it works for you.
I play soca as well too (I'm Grenadian), recent soca music is mostly well quantized (exception is recently live instrument type tracks where they introduce random offsets in notes occasionally to make it sound more human, but even those are still quantized), so I think the only thing is you unfortunately gotta adjust them enough initially (by software reader or by ear) then do fine grained adjustments (by ear) until they don't move - then you can transition.
geposted Tue 27 Jun 23 @ 5:08 pm
The Soca Vault
Good Morning.
Thanks for the insight. The FX Auto BPM Sync basically syncs the FX with the BPM?
I'm learning more about VDJ on this inquiry alone. LOL
In Basic terms, for us who use traditional methods of mixing and blending with turntables will always have a higher factor of difficulty because we are using motorized equipment, we have a lot of intangibles.
What I do is I have the master tempo on, and now that I am into DJing, I understand why now certain mixes sounded like the chipmunks. LOL. And Master Tempo aka Key Lock should have no impact on the pitch of the song. And at the end of the day, two turntables will never be in exact sync, well it will be extremely difficult in getting them there in a live situation, so if you can get the adjustment to hold for 10 seconds, that is goal.
How do you rate the Key detection in VDJ, I usually run everything through mixed in key, and the beat mapping. Some riddims will have 4 songs and 2 different maps, which I realize is essential to properly mix if you are looking at the laptop, but at the end of the day, trust your ears.
Thanks for the insight. The FX Auto BPM Sync basically syncs the FX with the BPM?
I'm learning more about VDJ on this inquiry alone. LOL
In Basic terms, for us who use traditional methods of mixing and blending with turntables will always have a higher factor of difficulty because we are using motorized equipment, we have a lot of intangibles.
What I do is I have the master tempo on, and now that I am into DJing, I understand why now certain mixes sounded like the chipmunks. LOL. And Master Tempo aka Key Lock should have no impact on the pitch of the song. And at the end of the day, two turntables will never be in exact sync, well it will be extremely difficult in getting them there in a live situation, so if you can get the adjustment to hold for 10 seconds, that is goal.
How do you rate the Key detection in VDJ, I usually run everything through mixed in key, and the beat mapping. Some riddims will have 4 songs and 2 different maps, which I realize is essential to properly mix if you are looking at the laptop, but at the end of the day, trust your ears.
geposted Wed 28 Jun 23 @ 3:01 pm
DJ VinylTouch
Quote :
Thanks for the insight. The FX Auto BPM Sync basically syncs the FX with the BPM?
This is true probably for all DJ software - this feature is probably crucial for many if not all the effects to sound good.
Quote :
In Basic terms, for us who use traditional methods of mixing and blending with turntables will always have a higher factor of difficulty because we are using motorized equipment, we have a lot of intangibles.
...
And at the end of the day, two turntables will never be in exact sync, well it will be extremely difficult in getting them there in a live situation, so if you can get the adjustment to hold for 10 seconds, that is goal.
In Basic terms, for us who use traditional methods of mixing and blending with turntables will always have a higher factor of difficulty because we are using motorized equipment, we have a lot of intangibles.
...
And at the end of the day, two turntables will never be in exact sync, well it will be extremely difficult in getting them there in a live situation, so if you can get the adjustment to hold for 10 seconds, that is goal.
Yes it's just the nature of the equipment. Non-motorized decks like CDJs don't suffer from this problem.
Please don't hold "10 seconds" as a magical rule...you really want it to hold as long as possible so that you can focus on transitioning to the next song - that could be 10 seconds, less or more. Just note that for longer transitions/blends, you might have to adjust in real time occasionally - you can choose to "pitch ride" or to nudge (both the pitch and the platter).
Quote :
What I do is I have the master tempo on, and now that I am into DJing, I understand why now certain mixes sounded like the chipmunks. LOL. And Master Tempo aka Key Lock should have no impact on the pitch of the song.
What I do is I have the master tempo on, and now that I am into DJing, I understand why now certain mixes sounded like the chipmunks. LOL. And Master Tempo aka Key Lock should have no impact on the pitch of the song.
So yes that's the purpose of Master Tempo/Key Lock. However I would caution against using extreme values of pitch adjustments - a too fast but key locked track sounds just as bad to me as a chipmunk track. As a rule of thumb I normally try to search for tracks within +-3 of the current track - even if you were to switch off Master Tempo, the track should still sound good enough to transition.
Quote :
How do you rate the Key detection in VDJ, I usually run everything through mixed in key, and the beat mapping. Some riddims will have 4 songs and 2 different maps, which I realize is essential to properly mix if you are looking at the laptop, but at the end of the day, trust your ears.
How do you rate the Key detection in VDJ, I usually run everything through mixed in key, and the beat mapping. Some riddims will have 4 songs and 2 different maps, which I realize is essential to properly mix if you are looking at the laptop, but at the end of the day, trust your ears.
This is an area that is very subjective in my view. VirtualDJ is ok in this area, but other public forums don't seem to consider it as excellent. What I would say is, given you are already using Mixed In Key (which is considered to be excellent in the DJ community), keep using Mixed in Key, don't mix the two. I don't think you can switch off key detection in VirtualDJ, but you can tell it to favor the key in the song's metadata (which would be written out by Mixed in Key), by setting the follow options:
- getTagsAuto = true
- useKeyFromTag = true
geposted Wed 28 Jun 23 @ 3:39 pm
The Soca Vault
I can't find the Auto BPM FX thing... LOL
But I took some of the advice, and I did a little practice mix....
Gonna listen back to it
But I took some of the advice, and I did a little practice mix....
Gonna listen back to it
geposted Wed 28 Jun 23 @ 7:37 pm
DJ VinylTouch
Quote :
I can't find the Auto BPM FX thing... LOL
I actually don't readily know where it is in software, but normally controllers have a setting for it (normally it's set to auto), so the FX use the BPM of the song to operate.
geposted Wed 28 Jun 23 @ 7:52 pm
Adion
There's no setting for this, in VDJ effects always use the song's BPM
geposted Thu 29 Jun 23 @ 4:59 am
DJ VinylTouch
@Adion on the pioneer controllers I have (DJM S9 and S11), I thought there is a setting to control that (it's normally set to auto, but I've accidentally turned it off a couple of times...it seemed to control the timing of the effect). Am I wrong about that?
On further thought, this might be a hardware effect only thing.
On further thought, this might be a hardware effect only thing.
geposted Thu 29 Jun 23 @ 4:41 pm
DJLindseyLeigh
This is also happening to me. All auto match settings are off and it's still changing the key when i hit the manual button in VDJ that matches the tempo of the other song, and it sounds horrible. Did anyone figure out which setting to change? Is there a lock button for the key I'm missing? All my settings reflect that I don't want the key to change, just the tempo.
geposted Fri 06 Oct 23 @ 3:23 am
Adion
The key is only changed either when 'autoKey' option is on, or when pressing a button mapped to 'match_key'.
In the default skin this happens when clicking the key display next to the title.
The 'sync' button only syncs the tempo, not the key.
In the default skin this happens when clicking the key display next to the title.
The 'sync' button only syncs the tempo, not the key.
geposted Fri 06 Oct 23 @ 5:22 am