adam
TL;DR: Issues with VirtualDJ's default mapping for Pioneer equipment are causing significant barriers to entry and user frustration. Specific problems include incorrect functionality for "Tag Track/Remove," "Back" button, and various loop and cue buttons. Open for some of us to collaborate with devs to resolve these issues for a smoother user experience.
For example, "Tag Track/Remove" CDJ button brings up id3 tag editor window.
This button has nothing to do with id3 tags.
Perhaps the person in charge of VDJ default mapping was unaware of what the button does. It's basically used for shortlisting (i.e., Tagging or Tag Listing) a track. In VDJ we call it Sidelist.
To view the Tag List, you press the yellow Tag List button along the top of the CDJ. See attached image.
When I paid the full VirtualDJ 2020 Business license for a few months and raised this issue a few times, sent video recordings and photos, it was never completely addressed or resolved.*
I was given some sort of work around which failed, and then tried again, but it's still very lacklustre and doesn't work in many situations:
browser_window 'sidelist' ? browser_remove : sidelist_add
This also adds duplicates to the sidelist, and doesn't address the "red tick" to the left of the CDJ track title issue - perhaps stemming from the same issue as being mistaken about what the "Tag Track/Remove" button was for.
With Rekordbox/Traktor/USB Thumb Drive, the "red tick" to the left side of the Track Title is used to signify that a track has been added to your Tag List (VDJ Sidelist) - very handy. Devs may remember trying to address it when I bought it up at the start of the year/late last year, but I don't think it was ever completely resolved. The red tick is currently mapped to tracks that have been played already. On CDJ normal functionality, played tracks are simply darkened (for reference, see pic in next post).
The "Back" button is another example of where it doesn't really do what it should. This one can be fully resolved by changing [controllervar '#dontbrowse' ? nothing : browser_folder] to simply
browser_window -1
More grating and genuinely performance impairing issues are the Loop "In/Cue" and "Out", "Reloop/Exit", "Hot Cue", "Call/Delete" buttons. Haven't a clue how to fix these yet. Something to do with Cue Loop I think but they appear to be multi layered logic statements.
I'm very happy (as a few others would be) to sit down with the devs and work out complete proper Pioneer CDJ mapping over an hour or two if it means this can be finally resolved. A genuinely seamless transition to VDJ (like your videos convey) would significanly increase adoption for new users. The confusion created when
-buttons don't do what they do everywhere else, then
-the complexity of checking all of the buttons and remapping them
-the complexity of making sense of a new coding language (eg just to get the back button to go back),
-the complexity of multi layered logic statements, and then
-oftentimes sketchy/incomplete docs
..And even then, not completely succeeding, or having your issues dismissed, for many it wouldn't be worth sticking with. Stems separation are a great thing to have, but DJs have done fine for eons with the basic functionality. Not having the basic functionality is an extreme turnoff. Some of us DJs aren't the brightest tools in the shed/sharpest lights in the sandwich.
If you were able to have a small task force put in the hard yards for a month or so, and overcome this significant barrier to entry (and significant frustration for those who have stuck around), you could have these issues and complaints behind you and allow your team to be able to focus on what I can see you guys are really passionate about - innovation - and SIGNIFICANTLY broaden the amount of people you're able to share these outstanding innovations with.
It's like you've built all these incredible things, but the bridge is only 3/4 of the way there (the equipment does so much weird stuff). You either jump in to the muddy river or turn around and decide it's not worth it. We just need to iron out these final tweaks to be able to allow so many to be able to access what is truly cutting edge at the other side (make the buttons work properly). You could be the Macs of the DJ world - just fix the "it just works" issue - at the very least with the industry standard equipment.
Pretty sure Pioneer equipment has about 60% of market share, and while I don't have a pie chart to back this up, my 'highly scientific' anecdotal evidence suggests that Pioneer equipment is virtually ubiquitous in professional venues. Let's just say, where there's a DJ booth, there's a good chance it's decked out in Pioneer. And let's not forget, professionals are the crowd that doesn't shy away from investing in their gear & software licenses.
What do you say VDJ team? I'm sure a few of us are happy to help via video chat or even by sending you videos of what to fix. Let us know who to PM (or privately PM us) and we can send you our feedback to get mapping and transition to VDJ from Rekordbox/Traktor/USB Thumb Drive seamless.
*PS it'd be great to get a full transcript of my Pro Business support chat that I requested, so I could refer to some of the solutions, questions and video links I posted without having to re-explain everything.
For example, "Tag Track/Remove" CDJ button brings up id3 tag editor window.
This button has nothing to do with id3 tags.
Perhaps the person in charge of VDJ default mapping was unaware of what the button does. It's basically used for shortlisting (i.e., Tagging or Tag Listing) a track. In VDJ we call it Sidelist.
To view the Tag List, you press the yellow Tag List button along the top of the CDJ. See attached image.
When I paid the full VirtualDJ 2020 Business license for a few months and raised this issue a few times, sent video recordings and photos, it was never completely addressed or resolved.*
I was given some sort of work around which failed, and then tried again, but it's still very lacklustre and doesn't work in many situations:
browser_window 'sidelist' ? browser_remove : sidelist_add
This also adds duplicates to the sidelist, and doesn't address the "red tick" to the left of the CDJ track title issue - perhaps stemming from the same issue as being mistaken about what the "Tag Track/Remove" button was for.
With Rekordbox/Traktor/USB Thumb Drive, the "red tick" to the left side of the Track Title is used to signify that a track has been added to your Tag List (VDJ Sidelist) - very handy. Devs may remember trying to address it when I bought it up at the start of the year/late last year, but I don't think it was ever completely resolved. The red tick is currently mapped to tracks that have been played already. On CDJ normal functionality, played tracks are simply darkened (for reference, see pic in next post).
The "Back" button is another example of where it doesn't really do what it should. This one can be fully resolved by changing [controllervar '#dontbrowse' ? nothing : browser_folder] to simply
browser_window -1
More grating and genuinely performance impairing issues are the Loop "In/Cue" and "Out", "Reloop/Exit", "Hot Cue", "Call/Delete" buttons. Haven't a clue how to fix these yet. Something to do with Cue Loop I think but they appear to be multi layered logic statements.
I'm very happy (as a few others would be) to sit down with the devs and work out complete proper Pioneer CDJ mapping over an hour or two if it means this can be finally resolved. A genuinely seamless transition to VDJ (like your videos convey) would significanly increase adoption for new users. The confusion created when
-buttons don't do what they do everywhere else, then
-the complexity of checking all of the buttons and remapping them
-the complexity of making sense of a new coding language (eg just to get the back button to go back),
-the complexity of multi layered logic statements, and then
-oftentimes sketchy/incomplete docs
..And even then, not completely succeeding, or having your issues dismissed, for many it wouldn't be worth sticking with. Stems separation are a great thing to have, but DJs have done fine for eons with the basic functionality. Not having the basic functionality is an extreme turnoff. Some of us DJs aren't the brightest tools in the shed/sharpest lights in the sandwich.
If you were able to have a small task force put in the hard yards for a month or so, and overcome this significant barrier to entry (and significant frustration for those who have stuck around), you could have these issues and complaints behind you and allow your team to be able to focus on what I can see you guys are really passionate about - innovation - and SIGNIFICANTLY broaden the amount of people you're able to share these outstanding innovations with.
It's like you've built all these incredible things, but the bridge is only 3/4 of the way there (the equipment does so much weird stuff). You either jump in to the muddy river or turn around and decide it's not worth it. We just need to iron out these final tweaks to be able to allow so many to be able to access what is truly cutting edge at the other side (make the buttons work properly). You could be the Macs of the DJ world - just fix the "it just works" issue - at the very least with the industry standard equipment.
Pretty sure Pioneer equipment has about 60% of market share, and while I don't have a pie chart to back this up, my 'highly scientific' anecdotal evidence suggests that Pioneer equipment is virtually ubiquitous in professional venues. Let's just say, where there's a DJ booth, there's a good chance it's decked out in Pioneer. And let's not forget, professionals are the crowd that doesn't shy away from investing in their gear & software licenses.
What do you say VDJ team? I'm sure a few of us are happy to help via video chat or even by sending you videos of what to fix. Let us know who to PM (or privately PM us) and we can send you our feedback to get mapping and transition to VDJ from Rekordbox/Traktor/USB Thumb Drive seamless.
*PS it'd be great to get a full transcript of my Pro Business support chat that I requested, so I could refer to some of the solutions, questions and video links I posted without having to re-explain everything.
geposted Fri 06 Oct 23 @ 3:55 am
adam
Red Tick (Tag List/Sidelist), and Already Played (Dimmed) reference image.
geposted Fri 06 Oct 23 @ 3:56 am
klausmogensen
Why do you think there is an industry standard?
And if there were, why would it be Pioneer based? Shouldn't it at least be Technics based?
If I was to name an industry standard for DJ software, it would be based on Virtual DJ. That has been around much longer than any Pioneer software for DJing
All jokes a side: If you choose to use VDJ, simply accept the way everything is inplemented in VDJ, including how supported hardware is mapped. And the same goes if you choose to with Rekordbox
Like Phil from Digital DJ Tips says :" Controllers are just dumb boxes of buttons". It's up to the software/software makers to decide what happens when you click any given button
It's of course always fine to suggest new/added features. Just don't be the guy that think Pioneer found the holy grail. They are often wrong, and the things they've gotten right, are mostly copies from the software that were there before them (Traktor, VirtualDJ, even Serato)
And if there were, why would it be Pioneer based? Shouldn't it at least be Technics based?
If I was to name an industry standard for DJ software, it would be based on Virtual DJ. That has been around much longer than any Pioneer software for DJing
All jokes a side: If you choose to use VDJ, simply accept the way everything is inplemented in VDJ, including how supported hardware is mapped. And the same goes if you choose to with Rekordbox
Like Phil from Digital DJ Tips says :" Controllers are just dumb boxes of buttons". It's up to the software/software makers to decide what happens when you click any given button
It's of course always fine to suggest new/added features. Just don't be the guy that think Pioneer found the holy grail. They are often wrong, and the things they've gotten right, are mostly copies from the software that were there before them (Traktor, VirtualDJ, even Serato)
geposted Fri 06 Oct 23 @ 5:32 am
klausmogensen
Oh, and VDJ mappings if course shouldn't be changed out of the blue. Think about all the users who is using the mapping the way it currently works, and has been working since a given hardware became supported. They expect things to work the same way the next time they open VDJ
If you find a clear cut bug, that is, of course, different, and those should always be reported
If you find a clear cut bug, that is, of course, different, and those should always be reported
geposted Fri 06 Oct 23 @ 5:46 am
Adion
Note that for the tag track/remove and tag list buttons, we do actually match the functionality provided when cdj's are used with rekordbox.
The cdj's don't have the tag list functionality available in firmware for pc mode at all, so that's something we can't add even if we wanted to until Pioneer makes this available through a firmware update.
The cdj's don't have the tag list functionality available in firmware for pc mode at all, so that's something we can't add even if we wanted to until Pioneer makes this available through a firmware update.
geposted Fri 06 Oct 23 @ 7:44 am