threeeyedtoad
I’ve been busy prepping the past few months for DJ gig I finally got to spin this weekend. I wanted to have my own gear to offer up to the celebration, and went through a lengthy evaluation process of both software and hardware configurations. Ultimately, I liked the features and UI that Virtual DJ offered. I also evaluated the Hercules MK2 and Behringer BCD 2000 over the course of several nights.
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/64478/Hardware_Technical_Support/Head_to_Head_-_BCD_2000_vs__Herc_MK2.html?highlight=bcd
After investing in the BCD 2000 and purchasing Virtual DJ (not cheap at $300), I was even excited to try the BCD MIDI mapper developed for Virtual DJ. Then, I began the lengthy process of accurately measuring the BPM of all my tracks (I spin soul and funk music, and calculating BPM can be TIME CONSUMING), created playlists, and began practicing. Things seemed to be going well, and I was happy with the way things were shaping up.
About two days before my gig, I decided to try and spin the entire 3 hour set, start to finish. What I discovered was that after as few as 13 minutes but no more than 40 minutes after beginning to run through the set, the music stops and VDJ stops responding to the controller. The UI in VDJ appears to be responding (i.e. I can click on the buttons using my mouse), but there is no effect (i.e. music does not resume when the “play” button is pressed, “cue” does not jump to the cue point).
I’ve found that by going into the configuration and switching from the ASIO driver to the built-in BCD support (or vice-versa), control returns. Obviously, for a live set, this is unacceptable.
I’ve been through the several posts I found on “optimizing” Windows (I run Win XP SP2 on a Dell Latitude D500 with an Intel Pentium M at 1.29 Ghz with 2 Gb of RAM). I’ve read some posts from other users that seem to have encountered this same problem, with no resolution in sight (the one recommendation I saw was to un-check the “Overclock” configuration… the problem appears whether this option is checked or not).
Bottom line: after all my research, after investing no small amount of time and money – I ended up having to burn my entire set to CD in order to spin my set off a pair of CDJ 1000 MK2s (which, by the way, were a dream to use).
My question to the Virtual DJ moderators, developers and support developers: have you found a resolution to the problem I described? I’m happy to describe it in greater detail, if necessary.
I really do like Virtual DJ, and would very much like to be able to continue to use it for DJ gigs. However, I cannot possibly rely on the product if it CONSISTENTLY stops responding in the middle of a set.
For $300, I fully expect to be provided a resolution to my problem, or will request a full refund on my investment.
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/64478/Hardware_Technical_Support/Head_to_Head_-_BCD_2000_vs__Herc_MK2.html?highlight=bcd
After investing in the BCD 2000 and purchasing Virtual DJ (not cheap at $300), I was even excited to try the BCD MIDI mapper developed for Virtual DJ. Then, I began the lengthy process of accurately measuring the BPM of all my tracks (I spin soul and funk music, and calculating BPM can be TIME CONSUMING), created playlists, and began practicing. Things seemed to be going well, and I was happy with the way things were shaping up.
About two days before my gig, I decided to try and spin the entire 3 hour set, start to finish. What I discovered was that after as few as 13 minutes but no more than 40 minutes after beginning to run through the set, the music stops and VDJ stops responding to the controller. The UI in VDJ appears to be responding (i.e. I can click on the buttons using my mouse), but there is no effect (i.e. music does not resume when the “play” button is pressed, “cue” does not jump to the cue point).
I’ve found that by going into the configuration and switching from the ASIO driver to the built-in BCD support (or vice-versa), control returns. Obviously, for a live set, this is unacceptable.
I’ve been through the several posts I found on “optimizing” Windows (I run Win XP SP2 on a Dell Latitude D500 with an Intel Pentium M at 1.29 Ghz with 2 Gb of RAM). I’ve read some posts from other users that seem to have encountered this same problem, with no resolution in sight (the one recommendation I saw was to un-check the “Overclock” configuration… the problem appears whether this option is checked or not).
Bottom line: after all my research, after investing no small amount of time and money – I ended up having to burn my entire set to CD in order to spin my set off a pair of CDJ 1000 MK2s (which, by the way, were a dream to use).
My question to the Virtual DJ moderators, developers and support developers: have you found a resolution to the problem I described? I’m happy to describe it in greater detail, if necessary.
I really do like Virtual DJ, and would very much like to be able to continue to use it for DJ gigs. However, I cannot possibly rely on the product if it CONSISTENTLY stops responding in the middle of a set.
For $300, I fully expect to be provided a resolution to my problem, or will request a full refund on my investment.
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 8:28 pm
Tyrellbristol
I use to have that problem
i wiped my laptop and reinstalled a fresh copy of windows xp and install the neccasry drivers only.
i found out disabling the wireless internet and LAN prevented the freezing
i used virtual dj for 2 gigs so far and VDJ hasnt crashed.. and i was mixing for close to 6hrs
when i did the obie trice concert on sunday. the other djs were like "what software is that!, i want it"
they were impressed with the timecoded option.
i wiped my laptop and reinstalled a fresh copy of windows xp and install the neccasry drivers only.
i found out disabling the wireless internet and LAN prevented the freezing
i used virtual dj for 2 gigs so far and VDJ hasnt crashed.. and i was mixing for close to 6hrs
when i did the obie trice concert on sunday. the other djs were like "what software is that!, i want it"
they were impressed with the timecoded option.
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 8:55 pm
threeeyedtoad
I disabled both the wireless and wired network ports. I also killed every single process outside of necessary system software.
I did not/do not have the option of wiping my laptop, though I would be willing to reconfigure any options recommended. I have never installed anything other than the current version of VDJ (4.2) and the current BCD 2000 drivers (v. 1.1.1.0).
I did not/do not have the option of wiping my laptop, though I would be willing to reconfigure any options recommended. I have never installed anything other than the current version of VDJ (4.2) and the current BCD 2000 drivers (v. 1.1.1.0).
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 9:02 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
USE AUTO FOR LATENCY IN VDJ PERFORMANCE TAB
This is usually the single fix for BCD2000 issues ;)
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 9:47 pm
threeeyedtoad
I have the "Latency" in the "Sound Card" settings under "Performances" set to Auto. I set all my settings according to the settings dj-in-norway described:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/57850/General_Discussion/A_quide_to_setting_up_BCD2000_in_Virtual_DJ_4_1.html
... and those described by DJ Quintana
http://www.virtualdj.com/blog/juliocqb/blog3586.html
Note that in some places, these configuration documents conflict one another. Also note that my preference is to use the MIDI Mapper (ASIO driver).
A brief rundown of my settings in the "Performances" tab:
Presets:
- Set to "Fastest"
Sound Card:
- Latency: "Auto"
- Unchecked "Safe Mode"
- Unchecked "Overclock" (I tried both checked and unchecked here)
Scratch:
- Optimize for "Quality"
- "Simple Algorithm"
48kHz <-> 44kHz
- "Basic Interpolation"
Master Tempo
- "Fast"
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/57850/General_Discussion/A_quide_to_setting_up_BCD2000_in_Virtual_DJ_4_1.html
... and those described by DJ Quintana
http://www.virtualdj.com/blog/juliocqb/blog3586.html
Note that in some places, these configuration documents conflict one another. Also note that my preference is to use the MIDI Mapper (ASIO driver).
A brief rundown of my settings in the "Performances" tab:
Presets:
- Set to "Fastest"
Sound Card:
- Latency: "Auto"
- Unchecked "Safe Mode"
- Unchecked "Overclock" (I tried both checked and unchecked here)
Scratch:
- Optimize for "Quality"
- "Simple Algorithm"
48kHz <-> 44kHz
- "Basic Interpolation"
Master Tempo
- "Fast"
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 10:12 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
DJ Quintana is probably the most correct one ;) He has BCD2000 and those guys have used days and night to try to tweak the BCD2000 to work best possible.
Bottom line is that the console is really bad made, even Behringer have admitted to that.
But that doesnt mean you cant get lucky and having it work.
Generally speaking the console is really sensitive to audio underbuffer.
So you need a high latency + make sure it does not have a IRQ sharing on the USB port.
In addition you need to turn off hardware that "talks" to the CPU lots, like WiFI, Bluetooth, Lan and such.
To explain in simple terms, the CPU sends audio data to the BCD2000, and the console process that data, and then picks up new audio data from the buffer (asio latency setting controls the size of the buffer).
If a device interfears the flow of data between the CPU and the BCD2000, the buffer gets empty.
Most other cards would then give a little crackle/pop in the sound, but the BCD2000 freezes.
So you need to make sure you have a high buffer in ASIO settings + turn off all intense hardware (And even software, such as AntiVirus and MSN),
This is all recommended by Behringer by the way too.
For extensive reading about all the problems with BCD2000, you can also visit www.xylio.com forum for more tips.
But whats said in DJ Quintana guide is the best possible tweaks around.
Just make sure you temporary disable all hardware that is not in use while mixing
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 10:40 pm
threeeyedtoad
While I do appreciate your candor, I am disappointed that the official response from a Virtual DJ "Teamer" is that "you cant (sic) get lucky and having it work".
So, if I've followed DJ Quintana's configuration guide (which I have), and I've optimized my system to remove ancillary CPU "distractions", and it still freezes, I'm SOL.
A shame. As I said, I did like Virtual DJ, and would have liked to continue to use and support your product. The MIDI mapper was also a very nice effort to make the most of the Behringer controller.
How do I go about requesting a refund?
So, if I've followed DJ Quintana's configuration guide (which I have), and I've optimized my system to remove ancillary CPU "distractions", and it still freezes, I'm SOL.
A shame. As I said, I did like Virtual DJ, and would have liked to continue to use and support your product. The MIDI mapper was also a very nice effort to make the most of the Behringer controller.
How do I go about requesting a refund?
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 11:07 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Sorry, did not mean it in a bad way
But you got to understand that VDJ has nothing to do with Behringer or the making of the BCD2000.
Behringer themselves have admitted that the console has problems, and have now made a new version of it, called BCD3000 (not sure if its better, but hopefully)
The BCD2000 have real sensitive drivers, and roumours also say that there is a chip problem inside it.
All this has nothing to do with VDJ, and we try our best to make it work.
But at the end of the day, it comes down to the hardware, and its Behringer that makes the BCD2000, not VDJ.
If you visit the official software for the BCD2000 ( www.xylio.com ) you will see that most users have big problems with that console, unfortunately.
I'm just saying that lots of people have it working good in VDJ, but its very dependent on your PC's other hardware, settings, IRQ and such.. And this is not related to VDJ, but the console itself.
So I hope you understand.
According to feedback from forum though, most users get the BCD2000 to work good, after turning off WiFI , LAn etc. So thats why I said you might get lucky too, most do.. But not all, unfortunately.
VDJ will work out of the box and without any problems with Hercules, Nuo4, XP10, TotalControl, DAC, DMC and LOTS of other controllers.
If you cant get the BCD2000 to work after testing all the setup tips from other users, sure you can ask for a refund, but you should direct it to Behringer, that made the console.
I do hope you get it to work, if not, please know that its not VDJ fault
geposted Tue 27 Mar 07 @ 11:43 pm
cgariss
If you can return the BCD2000 you should try the Hercules Mk2 - it is excellent.
geposted Fri 30 Mar 07 @ 10:48 am
DJ Marcel_1
Most BCD 2000 owners experienced most of these issues,
Of of them stuck with the console - others returned it.
I got rid of mine - it was a pile of crap, Berhinger shit the bed with that one.
Of of them stuck with the console - others returned it.
I got rid of mine - it was a pile of crap, Berhinger shit the bed with that one.
geposted Fri 30 Mar 07 @ 11:34 am
threeeyedtoad
I evaluated both the Herc Mk2 and the Behringer 2k before making a purchase. (See the link in my first post to this thread that is the result of my comparison.) Ultimately, the features that were key to my purchase put the Behringer out in front of the Herc. With some hindsight, it would appear that neither of these consoles offers all of the features that matter most to me.
The point that has me most upset with Virtual DJ is that the software claims to support the BCD-2000 natively, and through the use of the ASIO "MIDI Mapper". This claim featured prominently into my decision to purchase VDJ for $300 USD. Had I better understood the problems encountered consistent from users of this setup, I very likely would have gone with a different software purchase.
I'm going to attempt a fresh install of Windows XP in order to try and salvage my purchase. What a tremendous amount of pain to have to go through to get this to work properly. Very disappointed.
The point that has me most upset with Virtual DJ is that the software claims to support the BCD-2000 natively, and through the use of the ASIO "MIDI Mapper". This claim featured prominently into my decision to purchase VDJ for $300 USD. Had I better understood the problems encountered consistent from users of this setup, I very likely would have gone with a different software purchase.
I'm going to attempt a fresh install of Windows XP in order to try and salvage my purchase. What a tremendous amount of pain to have to go through to get this to work properly. Very disappointed.
geposted Mon 02 Apr 07 @ 6:26 pm
DJ Marcel_1
threeeyedtoad wrote :
I'm going to attempt a fresh install of Windows XP in order to try and salvage my purchase. What a tremendous amount of pain to have to go through to get this to work properly. Very disappointed.
I'm going to attempt a fresh install of Windows XP in order to try and salvage my purchase. What a tremendous amount of pain to have to go through to get this to work properly. Very disappointed.
I believe the Romans had an expression for this.
Cavet Empor (I think)
Buyer Beware.
You looked at the Consoles.
Doesn't look like you looked at the software. (beyond reading the adverts)
Since I've spent money on this thing, I was in the same boat as you. I was angry/ disappointed, looked into other DJ software, and come to this conclusion.
The Problems were the fault of the faulty Product that Berhinger produced.
VDJ is the best DJ software on the market today
Many guys have spent many hours getting a faulty praoduct to work - good for them.
I returned it. Got a real mixer. Still using my DAC 2.
Ditch the BCD 2000 - or demand an upgrade to BCD 3000 when it's released. Might be a better unit - don't know, don't care. I'll probably never buy a beheringer product again - other than headphones.
Be advise for you is wait for the Numark gear. Designed and Built for VDJ. Sould be resoanably good quality.
geposted Mon 02 Apr 07 @ 8:39 pm
threeeyedtoad
DJ Marcel_1 wrote :
You looked at the Consoles.
Doesn't look like you looked at the software. (beyond reading the adverts)
You looked at the Consoles.
Doesn't look like you looked at the software. (beyond reading the adverts)
Again, I refer you back to the original post in this thread. ALL of my evaluation was done EXCLUSIVELY with Virtual DJ 4.2. All of the results I documented in my original controller comparison was based on my experience with each of the controllers' capabilities with Virtual DJ. My decision was based on how these controllers worked with VDJ, since that was the package I was hoping to use.
Everything works fine, as long as you aren't planning on spinning a set longer than about 15 minutes.
Yes, I can look forward to other (currently imaginary) controllers. Sure, I could invest in a mixer. Yup, I could even go out and pick up a pair of CDJ 1000MK2s, if money was no object. My disappointment lies in support for controllers that VDJ claims to support. Nothing more.
geposted Mon 02 Apr 07 @ 9:42 pm
DJ Marcel_1
Quote :
Everything works fine, as long as you aren't planning on spinning a set longer than about 15 minutes.
Yes, I can look forward to other (currently imaginary) controllers. Sure, I could invest in a mixer. Yup, I could even go out and pick up a pair of CDJ 1000MK2s, if money was no object. My disappointment lies in support for controllers that VDJ claims to support. Nothing more.
Yes, I can look forward to other (currently imaginary) controllers. Sure, I could invest in a mixer. Yup, I could even go out and pick up a pair of CDJ 1000MK2s, if money was no object. My disappointment lies in support for controllers that VDJ claims to support. Nothing more.
Well try other options.
DAC 2 (old but very good)
DAC 3
XP10
dvinyl (might be hard to find - out of production)
iCDX (dedicated controller AND cd player)
All are available right now at your local DJ Retailer. And work very well in VDJ. Most have mappers available to you because you are a pro-user; For Free even.
There are other options rather than asking a software company for a refund because of another hardware companies inferior product.
geposted Mon 02 Apr 07 @ 11:04 pm
djkike
@threeeyedtoad
I had same horrible experience few months ago... i own both BCD and MK2.
I've been playing music for the last 20years (gigs and clubs). For yhe last 4 years i'm using VDJ.
I play 4 days a week at clubs with vdj, lots of video and also radio live connection once a week. When i found BCD i thought it could be a very pro controller (looks like real mixer) bust i never get more than 15 minutes playing without freezing. I read through lots of posts and even contact Behringer.. still the same. My BCD is in his box.
Finally i decided to wait for a new good and compatible controller to came out in the next future.
:(
I had same horrible experience few months ago... i own both BCD and MK2.
I've been playing music for the last 20years (gigs and clubs). For yhe last 4 years i'm using VDJ.
I play 4 days a week at clubs with vdj, lots of video and also radio live connection once a week. When i found BCD i thought it could be a very pro controller (looks like real mixer) bust i never get more than 15 minutes playing without freezing. I read through lots of posts and even contact Behringer.. still the same. My BCD is in his box.
Finally i decided to wait for a new good and compatible controller to came out in the next future.
:(
geposted Tue 03 Apr 07 @ 12:20 am
juliocqb
@ threeyedtoad......add me to your msn...you can see my info on my blog.... ;)
Dj Quintana
Dj Quintana
geposted Tue 03 Apr 07 @ 5:17 am
threeeyedtoad
After much gnashing of teeth, I finally bit the bullet and did a complete, fresh installation of Windows XP to try and get Virtual DJ working with my BCD 2000. After installing ONLY the necessary drivers (For those interested, I installed the Intel chipset drivers, graphics drivers and audio drivers for my Dell Latitude D500 – NO modem, network or ANY other unnecessary drivers.), I installed the most recent Behringer drivers (v 1.1.1.0), Virtual DJ 4.3, and the very excellent BCD Mapper 2.1 (continued props to DJ Moramax). After all that (and then some -- see below), I was able to do a test run with my BCD 2K last night for several hours – without a problem. After messing around with the controller in VDJ for a bit, I created a playlist, and let VDJ automix with the BCD 2K running. I occasionally stepped in to mess with the controller, but mostly, I just wanted to see if the program would at any time freeze. Checking in 8 hours later, it was still running fine.
For those who have been following this thread, here were the steps I took:
- Fresh install of Windows XP SP2 on a completely formatted hard drive
- Installation of ONLY the required drivers (Intel chipset, Graphics Driver, Sound card)
- Installation of the BCD 1.1.1.0 driver
- Installation of Virtual DJ 4.2
- Installation of the BCD Mapper 2.1
Note that after doing this, I was STILL experiencing FREEZES after about 20 minutes or so. Cursing like a sailor, I continued on with the following, certain it was all in vain:
- Followed every damn instruction listed at http://www.xylio.com/site/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95
- As referenced in other posts in the VDJ forums, installed this WinXP SP2 patch: http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/a/d/1adc7d18-0a2a-430a-b4a4-f838a6c0fdb2/WindowsXP-KB920872-x86-ENU.exe
- Also as referenced in other posts in the VDJ forums, installed SpeedswitchXP (http://www.diefer.de/speedswitchxp/), and set the CPU to “Max Performance” while on AC power
Only after doing all this did I experience everything working as it should. I should note that since doing this configuration, my D500 appears to occasionally have difficulties starting up (doesn’t even get to the BIOS setup), but I suspect this is due to having an older BIOS. I’ll be flashing the BIOS tonight, and will report back after that.
Am I happy it’s (apparently) working – FINALLY? Of course. Do I think this configuration procedure is for the faint of heart or technically challenged? Definitely not. Bottom line: the combo BCD-VDJ setup I have had my heart set on is NOT a configuration I would recommend, especially to those who just want to “plug-and-go” into the world of e-DJing. Alas, the BCD is the closest thing in my budget to what I’m looking for in a controller/mixer that is available TODAY. 12 months from now, I will look forward to seeing what controller/mixers are AVAILABLE for purchase and evaluation.
Exhausted, but (at long last) mixing it up,
- DJ Three Eyed Toad
For those who have been following this thread, here were the steps I took:
- Fresh install of Windows XP SP2 on a completely formatted hard drive
- Installation of ONLY the required drivers (Intel chipset, Graphics Driver, Sound card)
- Installation of the BCD 1.1.1.0 driver
- Installation of Virtual DJ 4.2
- Installation of the BCD Mapper 2.1
Note that after doing this, I was STILL experiencing FREEZES after about 20 minutes or so. Cursing like a sailor, I continued on with the following, certain it was all in vain:
- Followed every damn instruction listed at http://www.xylio.com/site/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95
- As referenced in other posts in the VDJ forums, installed this WinXP SP2 patch: http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/a/d/1adc7d18-0a2a-430a-b4a4-f838a6c0fdb2/WindowsXP-KB920872-x86-ENU.exe
- Also as referenced in other posts in the VDJ forums, installed SpeedswitchXP (http://www.diefer.de/speedswitchxp/), and set the CPU to “Max Performance” while on AC power
Only after doing all this did I experience everything working as it should. I should note that since doing this configuration, my D500 appears to occasionally have difficulties starting up (doesn’t even get to the BIOS setup), but I suspect this is due to having an older BIOS. I’ll be flashing the BIOS tonight, and will report back after that.
Am I happy it’s (apparently) working – FINALLY? Of course. Do I think this configuration procedure is for the faint of heart or technically challenged? Definitely not. Bottom line: the combo BCD-VDJ setup I have had my heart set on is NOT a configuration I would recommend, especially to those who just want to “plug-and-go” into the world of e-DJing. Alas, the BCD is the closest thing in my budget to what I’m looking for in a controller/mixer that is available TODAY. 12 months from now, I will look forward to seeing what controller/mixers are AVAILABLE for purchase and evaluation.
Exhausted, but (at long last) mixing it up,
- DJ Three Eyed Toad
geposted Wed 04 Apr 07 @ 9:09 pm