mp3jrick
As an American I have a genuine question to ask others from this worldwide community.
I don't want to start an international flame war, but more of a controlled question and answer session.
I know we have members from all over the world here which is why I chose to the question ask here.
What is it that makes other countries in the world dislike the USA?
Is it our lifestyle?
The wealth of some?
Our ethics or lack of?
Our government/military?
I have a feeling and I understand worldwide politics.
What makes a whole region like the middle east hate us so much, enough to destroy NYC?
As you can see by the recent elections, we are not all united on how things are done in this country.
We are left with little choice but to live with things the way they are or move out, what would you do?
Just be honest and try to explain, I am really interested in the world opinion of us, we as citizens have no other impressions from the inside.
Don't worry about hurt of hard feelings, that has already been done.
I just really need to know what it is.
I don't want to start an international flame war, but more of a controlled question and answer session.
I know we have members from all over the world here which is why I chose to the question ask here.
What is it that makes other countries in the world dislike the USA?
Is it our lifestyle?
The wealth of some?
Our ethics or lack of?
Our government/military?
I have a feeling and I understand worldwide politics.
What makes a whole region like the middle east hate us so much, enough to destroy NYC?
As you can see by the recent elections, we are not all united on how things are done in this country.
We are left with little choice but to live with things the way they are or move out, what would you do?
Just be honest and try to explain, I am really interested in the world opinion of us, we as citizens have no other impressions from the inside.
Don't worry about hurt of hard feelings, that has already been done.
I just really need to know what it is.
geposted Tue 04 Jan 05 @ 7:34 pm
azawakh
I don't think people dislike americans, it has more to do with what the Us gov. is doing. Like today Powell said under his wisit in Thailand that USA will give help "even thou the majorety of the people are muslims". What does that have to do if they can give help or not? And then you have your president that starts wars so his pals can make more money. As myself I'm a linedance DJ, you know where that started, drive a Chevy van and have lots of friends over there and many of them thinks the same as me.
Take care.
Take care.
geposted Tue 04 Jan 05 @ 7:51 pm
idj4u
Hi Rick,
There is two types of "dislike" when it comes to the USA. As you know, I have a lot of friends from the USA that I consider friends. So this is simply an observation.
Because of the sheer size of the USA, it's people have "accidentally" become a little arrogant. I don't mean the people themselves are arrogant, it's more of a national attitude.
I'm only using little pieces of information here, so don't hate me, but here's some thoughts.
World War 2 - the USA refused to get involved because it wasn't affecting them. If Pearl Harbour wasn't attacked, who's to say the USA wouldn't have stood by while the rest of the world was conquered? At least, that's the way some non-americans see it.
Weapons of Mass Destruction - why wait for UN support? Instead of a combined informed effort, the USA appeared to gung ho it's way into a land it was not welcome and take over. For what?
World Series baseball. You can't have a WORLD series if there's only one country involved. ;-)
US/Canadian History - let me ask you this Rick. Was Canadian history part of your school curriculum? I understand that Canadian boys and girls "get US history rammed down their throats" at school (a direct quote from a Cannuck friend).
Please - these are just little observations I've seen, heard or been told, not necessarily my own.
That's possibly part of why people have this "thing" about Americans. Personally, the people I've dealt with from the USA are really nice welcoming people. When you love your own country as you guys do, it's easy to be misunderstood.
As for terrorism attacks - that's a whole other kind of dislike... what can create such hatred that someone would kill themselves in an air attack on NYC? What can fuel that? I guess America will never really understand, I guess non terrorist thinking folk around the world will also never understand. Do we really know why millions of jews were slaughtered in the war? We know why it happened, but we don't understand the mentality of it, the hatred that sparked the action in the first place.
This is probably not what you were looking for Rick but I felt inspired to share some random thoughts.
There is two types of "dislike" when it comes to the USA. As you know, I have a lot of friends from the USA that I consider friends. So this is simply an observation.
Because of the sheer size of the USA, it's people have "accidentally" become a little arrogant. I don't mean the people themselves are arrogant, it's more of a national attitude.
I'm only using little pieces of information here, so don't hate me, but here's some thoughts.
World War 2 - the USA refused to get involved because it wasn't affecting them. If Pearl Harbour wasn't attacked, who's to say the USA wouldn't have stood by while the rest of the world was conquered? At least, that's the way some non-americans see it.
Weapons of Mass Destruction - why wait for UN support? Instead of a combined informed effort, the USA appeared to gung ho it's way into a land it was not welcome and take over. For what?
World Series baseball. You can't have a WORLD series if there's only one country involved. ;-)
US/Canadian History - let me ask you this Rick. Was Canadian history part of your school curriculum? I understand that Canadian boys and girls "get US history rammed down their throats" at school (a direct quote from a Cannuck friend).
Please - these are just little observations I've seen, heard or been told, not necessarily my own.
That's possibly part of why people have this "thing" about Americans. Personally, the people I've dealt with from the USA are really nice welcoming people. When you love your own country as you guys do, it's easy to be misunderstood.
As for terrorism attacks - that's a whole other kind of dislike... what can create such hatred that someone would kill themselves in an air attack on NYC? What can fuel that? I guess America will never really understand, I guess non terrorist thinking folk around the world will also never understand. Do we really know why millions of jews were slaughtered in the war? We know why it happened, but we don't understand the mentality of it, the hatred that sparked the action in the first place.
This is probably not what you were looking for Rick but I felt inspired to share some random thoughts.
geposted Tue 04 Jan 05 @ 8:34 pm
apopsisdj
Interesting topic.
I have a software dictionary in this pc to translate english to greek, when i see a word that i don't understand reading this forum.
"arrogant" was not a known word, but i was sure what it meant, when i read the previous post.
I have a software dictionary in this pc to translate english to greek, when i see a word that i don't understand reading this forum.
"arrogant" was not a known word, but i was sure what it meant, when i read the previous post.
geposted Tue 04 Jan 05 @ 10:27 pm
DJ Andre Landry
Canada has no problem whatsoever with the USA we support them 100%
Andre
Andre
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 12:30 am
cyberia
I can share my thoughts on this subject... take them for whatever they are worth. Keep in mind the source of information, though: an Americanized Russian, who lived in the U.S. for 10 years.
Personally, I believe that a statement that I have read a couple of years ago in a magazine discussing this very topic summarizes this hatred quite nicely: a feeling of personal impotence from countries other than the United States. America is the only superpower left, it is a political giant, able to influence any and all of the world decisions with its mere 300 million people--that's only about 5 % of world's population. This concept was and still is especially difficult to digest for those people who have lived their lives and had relatives die for the pure extreme concept of "communism," with the Soviet Union exerting an equal amount of political and military influence. Those days are gone, for the good of the whole planet. America is a peaceful giant now, for the most part ;) (to quote a British magazine). The extreme lunatics obsessed with the feeling of personal inadequacy are very few, but they can surely can create some stink.
I hear a lot of closed-minded opinions both in the U.S. and Russia from people determined to show off their ignorance by saying "we are the best." No single person needs to be made feel inferior, and those lacking self-confidence really let those opinions get to them. I try to dismiss all of this bravado and pity the pure uneducated folk expressing them.
Think back to the high school years. If you were not the one exerting the most power, authority, popularity, did that annoy you? Did you feel "impotent" in a sense? Did you wish for things to be different?
That's my opinion on the hatred, the one that I have thought a lot about during the past 10 years. Anyone care to prove me wrong?
Personally, I believe that a statement that I have read a couple of years ago in a magazine discussing this very topic summarizes this hatred quite nicely: a feeling of personal impotence from countries other than the United States. America is the only superpower left, it is a political giant, able to influence any and all of the world decisions with its mere 300 million people--that's only about 5 % of world's population. This concept was and still is especially difficult to digest for those people who have lived their lives and had relatives die for the pure extreme concept of "communism," with the Soviet Union exerting an equal amount of political and military influence. Those days are gone, for the good of the whole planet. America is a peaceful giant now, for the most part ;) (to quote a British magazine). The extreme lunatics obsessed with the feeling of personal inadequacy are very few, but they can surely can create some stink.
I hear a lot of closed-minded opinions both in the U.S. and Russia from people determined to show off their ignorance by saying "we are the best." No single person needs to be made feel inferior, and those lacking self-confidence really let those opinions get to them. I try to dismiss all of this bravado and pity the pure uneducated folk expressing them.
Think back to the high school years. If you were not the one exerting the most power, authority, popularity, did that annoy you? Did you feel "impotent" in a sense? Did you wish for things to be different?
That's my opinion on the hatred, the one that I have thought a lot about during the past 10 years. Anyone care to prove me wrong?
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 12:35 am
DJ Rick
I've been a part of this international community for years. (going back to the Atomixmp3 forums)
I've often realised that as an American I was not a part of the majority here, but at no time have I ever felt or seen anything at all that could have been considered "hatred" or even dislike posted toward any American, or any other nation for that mater.
I see and hear on the American news channels that we are hated around the world, however I don't get the sence that any majority hates Americans. It's the few who do that seem to get the most press coverage.
(of course, that could be my arrogance speaking)
:-)
I've often realised that as an American I was not a part of the majority here, but at no time have I ever felt or seen anything at all that could have been considered "hatred" or even dislike posted toward any American, or any other nation for that mater.
I see and hear on the American news channels that we are hated around the world, however I don't get the sence that any majority hates Americans. It's the few who do that seem to get the most press coverage.
(of course, that could be my arrogance speaking)
:-)
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 4:38 am
mp3jrick
Rick,
This is not to suggest that this community has been used to express the hatred I refer to, it hasn't.
If I felt that was the case I wouldn't have popped the question.
Well this is good and constructive, keep it coming.
The arrogance thing is a little hard to accept because as American citizens we have no real way of expressing that first hand to the world. Our government and military on the other hand is a different story.
Personally they both have involved themselves around the globe in matters better left alone.
Many of us, including me, wish Iraq had never happened, but we have no say in the matter. I see the same thing happening there as happened in Vietnam, a sinkhole.
Imposing ones beliefs whether it's religeon or governing preferences is wrong. Both are the sole source of the conflicts around the globe past and present. It's pretty pathetic to realize it's all based on pride and imposed on others. Did Iraq come to us and ask for help? Did they come and say we want to be a democracy? No. We have done nothing but give the middle east yet another reason to hate us IMO.
I too consider myself a minority here, and Canada as much a part of this country as the border defines. It's an invisible line seen only at the border crossings IMO as is Mexico.
There is nothing like the high of overcoming hard feelings and extending a hand. Personally I feel saddened for the people of Russia for the struggles they are forced to live with imposed by a government that like ours cares more for military might rather than the good of it's people.
1/4 of all homeless people in the USA are veterans, hows that for screwed up.
But anyway, I will chime out here and read more. Please post your thoughts both positive and negative, its a learning experience for me and I'm sure others who never thought to ask the question.
This is not to suggest that this community has been used to express the hatred I refer to, it hasn't.
If I felt that was the case I wouldn't have popped the question.
Well this is good and constructive, keep it coming.
The arrogance thing is a little hard to accept because as American citizens we have no real way of expressing that first hand to the world. Our government and military on the other hand is a different story.
Personally they both have involved themselves around the globe in matters better left alone.
Many of us, including me, wish Iraq had never happened, but we have no say in the matter. I see the same thing happening there as happened in Vietnam, a sinkhole.
Imposing ones beliefs whether it's religeon or governing preferences is wrong. Both are the sole source of the conflicts around the globe past and present. It's pretty pathetic to realize it's all based on pride and imposed on others. Did Iraq come to us and ask for help? Did they come and say we want to be a democracy? No. We have done nothing but give the middle east yet another reason to hate us IMO.
I too consider myself a minority here, and Canada as much a part of this country as the border defines. It's an invisible line seen only at the border crossings IMO as is Mexico.
There is nothing like the high of overcoming hard feelings and extending a hand. Personally I feel saddened for the people of Russia for the struggles they are forced to live with imposed by a government that like ours cares more for military might rather than the good of it's people.
1/4 of all homeless people in the USA are veterans, hows that for screwed up.
But anyway, I will chime out here and read more. Please post your thoughts both positive and negative, its a learning experience for me and I'm sure others who never thought to ask the question.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 5:17 am
Man-Tk
USA is a Threat to the Civilized world -
It's all about power and destruction -
Do you really think that Saddam or Osama are very bad people and Bush are a good person ??
everyday day die more people in all over the world ,Thanks to Bush .
I have a lots of friends in Usa and they are good persons .
It's all about power and destruction -
Do you really think that Saddam or Osama are very bad people and Bush are a good person ??
everyday day die more people in all over the world ,Thanks to Bush .
I have a lots of friends in Usa and they are good persons .
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 5:22 am
idj4u
It seems I have attracted some attenton by using the word "arrogant". Perhaps people misunderstood WHY i used the word arrogant.
I forgot that I was not at my "home" forum where MP3Rick knows a little about me. I also forget that for many of you, English is a 2nd (or 3rd) language. I should have taken more time to explain myself, and chosen a better word.
How arrogant of me. :-|
I forgot that I was not at my "home" forum where MP3Rick knows a little about me. I also forget that for many of you, English is a 2nd (or 3rd) language. I should have taken more time to explain myself, and chosen a better word.
How arrogant of me. :-|
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 6:21 am
erxon
To me, it looks like the problem of hatred lies in "leaders" with too much power in unexpirienced and bit unresponsible hands.
Sadly, the last elections showed how divided amercia's opinion is; but i don't think that is a real picture of people's thoughts. It more looks like a need for revenge hidden by the reasonable wish for terrorism extermination. I don't think all of actions that were done were reasonable, and we all agree that war itself causes more trouble than it does good. But to get back to the point, these actions weren't execudet by poeple, but the leader with people in his hands.
I cannot judge the american president, because it's hard to get an impartial view of his actions. So, what I would like to say, is that "hatred" you hear about isn't pointed toward individual americans, but probably toward government or leaders.
Even though, that by the rules of democracy, president's actions should reflect peoples opinion, it's obviously not working that way (mostly). As rick said, "(...) we have no say in the matter". That's why you sholdn't feel hated in any way as individuals who are reasonable enough.
just a thought...
Sadly, the last elections showed how divided amercia's opinion is; but i don't think that is a real picture of people's thoughts. It more looks like a need for revenge hidden by the reasonable wish for terrorism extermination. I don't think all of actions that were done were reasonable, and we all agree that war itself causes more trouble than it does good. But to get back to the point, these actions weren't execudet by poeple, but the leader with people in his hands.
I cannot judge the american president, because it's hard to get an impartial view of his actions. So, what I would like to say, is that "hatred" you hear about isn't pointed toward individual americans, but probably toward government or leaders.
Even though, that by the rules of democracy, president's actions should reflect peoples opinion, it's obviously not working that way (mostly). As rick said, "(...) we have no say in the matter". That's why you sholdn't feel hated in any way as individuals who are reasonable enough.
just a thought...
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 6:47 am
DJ Rick
Indeed Saddam & Osama are BAD people.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 7:00 am
mp3jrick
As Americans travel the world they feel threatened, and indeed are in many cases.
We still take the heat for the actions of our government, directly or indirectly.
One would have to be numb to not realize or feel it.
It's like being hated because your brother murdered somebody.
I guess one question I have is what EXACTY caused terrorists to rise and attack this country?
The only obcious thing is that we (our government) doesn't hate Israel, so for that we are condemmed by all Muslims world wide. That is the only concrete thing I can see.
And are we just suposed to take it laying down? Or are we suposed to retaliate. And did we retaliate against the wrong country? Maybe yes, maybe no, all of these countries have terrorist ties in some way or other, where do you start?
And would your opinion be different if they attacked your country and killed your family?
The world is full of bad and dangerous people. What causes barbaric actions like executing or even filming a beheading? Just what level of hatred is that?
Would the world be better off if the USA practiced isolation?
Would it be better off economically?
It just can't be both ways....
Has the USA done more harm than good in the modern world?
I want to know how people in the world really feel, don't worry about hard feelings, express yourself.
Just back up what you say without generalizing.
We still take the heat for the actions of our government, directly or indirectly.
One would have to be numb to not realize or feel it.
It's like being hated because your brother murdered somebody.
I guess one question I have is what EXACTY caused terrorists to rise and attack this country?
The only obcious thing is that we (our government) doesn't hate Israel, so for that we are condemmed by all Muslims world wide. That is the only concrete thing I can see.
And are we just suposed to take it laying down? Or are we suposed to retaliate. And did we retaliate against the wrong country? Maybe yes, maybe no, all of these countries have terrorist ties in some way or other, where do you start?
And would your opinion be different if they attacked your country and killed your family?
The world is full of bad and dangerous people. What causes barbaric actions like executing or even filming a beheading? Just what level of hatred is that?
Would the world be better off if the USA practiced isolation?
Would it be better off economically?
It just can't be both ways....
Has the USA done more harm than good in the modern world?
I want to know how people in the world really feel, don't worry about hard feelings, express yourself.
Just back up what you say without generalizing.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 7:29 am
DJ Andre Landry
To all ....Listen to Heaven candlelight 911 mix .......let me know how you feel after.There was no need for the planes....What the h did you expect GB to do
Its always been a question of East vs West
I know some people in Afghanistan and Irak that have a chance to go to school now and have a life.
My brother in law is a doctor that visits Afghanistan every 3 months barely gets paid
My son is enrolled in the army he wants to go east and help
Westerners are there to help not to oblidge anyone to live the way we do!!
Have you ever driven down a small street on a Sunday in the West and watch the kids playing in the park or the nieghbours get together for a bbq....anyways
We all have a certain amount of days to live
We should profit from every single one
We should help all of mankind and have worldwide birthcontrol down to the last person
We should take care of the people who are alive today(everywhere)
Global social workers....could be a start UN maybe
Humanity could be whole....look at Asia (everyone is helping out)almost!!!!!!
Andre
Its always been a question of East vs West
I know some people in Afghanistan and Irak that have a chance to go to school now and have a life.
My brother in law is a doctor that visits Afghanistan every 3 months barely gets paid
My son is enrolled in the army he wants to go east and help
Westerners are there to help not to oblidge anyone to live the way we do!!
Have you ever driven down a small street on a Sunday in the West and watch the kids playing in the park or the nieghbours get together for a bbq....anyways
We all have a certain amount of days to live
We should profit from every single one
We should help all of mankind and have worldwide birthcontrol down to the last person
We should take care of the people who are alive today(everywhere)
Global social workers....could be a start UN maybe
Humanity could be whole....look at Asia (everyone is helping out)almost!!!!!!
Andre
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 10:11 am
Bargler
People don't like Americans because, for better or worse, we devour other cultures.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 12:53 pm
DJ Rick
LOL... I don't know, it seems that other cultures come here and become a part of the American collective. Contained within these borders is every other culture.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 2:10 pm
mp3jrick
Excellent point.
There is NOTHING like America for equality and opportunity.
I mean the English language is rapidly becoming a secondary language to Spanish with others closing in fast.
This place has become a cultural melting pot that few from the outside have ever seen.
Does that count for anything?
All of our larger corporations have screwed us out of jobs to manufacture out of the country, thus supporting cultures elsewhere.
And, that isn't counting the trade deficit.
What isn't made here is made with parts manufactured abroad.
No wonder the world hates us......
There is NOTHING like America for equality and opportunity.
I mean the English language is rapidly becoming a secondary language to Spanish with others closing in fast.
This place has become a cultural melting pot that few from the outside have ever seen.
Does that count for anything?
All of our larger corporations have screwed us out of jobs to manufacture out of the country, thus supporting cultures elsewhere.
And, that isn't counting the trade deficit.
What isn't made here is made with parts manufactured abroad.
No wonder the world hates us......
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 2:23 pm
Bargler
I wasn't attacking America...I'm an American, myself.
But you just said yourself, "All of our larger corporations have screwed us out of jobs to manufacture out of the country, thus supporting cultures elsewhere."
Jobs don't support culture. Building plants that are able to spew far more toxins than would be allowed in the US, is not supporting culture. McDonald's and Starbucks on every corner is not supporting culture. Look at the backlash to the huge retailers like Walmart, here in the US. Every small town in America is up in arms about how they are destroying their communites...that same mentality applies overseas.
Many of these communities have watched hundreds of years of tradition disappear within one generation, and they aren't happy about it. I'm not faulting America, just pointing it out. It's not really our fault that people like blue jeans, big macs, and bad pop music.
But you just said yourself, "All of our larger corporations have screwed us out of jobs to manufacture out of the country, thus supporting cultures elsewhere."
Jobs don't support culture. Building plants that are able to spew far more toxins than would be allowed in the US, is not supporting culture. McDonald's and Starbucks on every corner is not supporting culture. Look at the backlash to the huge retailers like Walmart, here in the US. Every small town in America is up in arms about how they are destroying their communites...that same mentality applies overseas.
Many of these communities have watched hundreds of years of tradition disappear within one generation, and they aren't happy about it. I'm not faulting America, just pointing it out. It's not really our fault that people like blue jeans, big macs, and bad pop music.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 4:31 pm
sjursjur
As many has said before I think the general dislike is towards the current administration and it's actions, and not against the people of the US. Anyway, I think that many people have problems with certain traits of the american culture: the most obvious is arrogance. An American HAS to be proud of being an American, and every good American citicen has to belive that the US is the best country on Earth an so on. This is a trait that I think many "outsiders" find pretty impudent. It's like there is a mentality that says: There are ordinary people, and there are Americans. Take the war in Iraq for instance: There are bodycounts for the americans everywhere, for instance on anti-war web pages like Michael Moore's, but not even there the count of the Iraqis are mentioned. The american number is somewhere above a 1000 where as the number of iraqi deaths due too the war is (according to american research) probably way more than 200 000 (probably twice that number).
And when you bring up questions like "And are we just suposed to take it laying down? Or are we suposed to retaliate." you illustrate another trait that i think "outsiders" dislike: black and white rethorics and sophistic politics. Nobody ask you to take it lying down: Look at Afgahnistan, that whole operation was based on a broad International understanding AND cooperation (you were not alone), and the operation has been mostly successfull, whereas in Iraq you rushed in whitout the support of most of the rest of the world and got a mess.
I think one of the most damaging things done to the American reputation was the decicion to overule the UN recommendations about Iraq. Look back to the early post 911 days: Everybody was an american! There was sympathy from all over the world, and now Gerorge W. has flushed it all down the toilet!
When you say "The only obcious thing is that we (our government) doesn't hate Israel, so for that we are condemmed by all Muslims world wide." That is so sugarcoated: It's not that the US doesn't hate Israel, it is in fact nearly funding the whole Israeli State, and most importantly the military. If you ever go to Gaza, you will discover why Palestinians hate Israelis, I think you will even understand the suicide bombers. The US has the ability to make peace in the middle east easily, but they don't.
...well I don't have time to finish this, but if you want to know why there is a lot of anti-USA vibes going on try seeing things from the perspective of non-americans. Try to see how American actions and decisions affect people all over the world, and not seldom in a not very good way. Go abroad and stay humble, and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.
And when you bring up questions like "And are we just suposed to take it laying down? Or are we suposed to retaliate." you illustrate another trait that i think "outsiders" dislike: black and white rethorics and sophistic politics. Nobody ask you to take it lying down: Look at Afgahnistan, that whole operation was based on a broad International understanding AND cooperation (you were not alone), and the operation has been mostly successfull, whereas in Iraq you rushed in whitout the support of most of the rest of the world and got a mess.
I think one of the most damaging things done to the American reputation was the decicion to overule the UN recommendations about Iraq. Look back to the early post 911 days: Everybody was an american! There was sympathy from all over the world, and now Gerorge W. has flushed it all down the toilet!
When you say "The only obcious thing is that we (our government) doesn't hate Israel, so for that we are condemmed by all Muslims world wide." That is so sugarcoated: It's not that the US doesn't hate Israel, it is in fact nearly funding the whole Israeli State, and most importantly the military. If you ever go to Gaza, you will discover why Palestinians hate Israelis, I think you will even understand the suicide bombers. The US has the ability to make peace in the middle east easily, but they don't.
...well I don't have time to finish this, but if you want to know why there is a lot of anti-USA vibes going on try seeing things from the perspective of non-americans. Try to see how American actions and decisions affect people all over the world, and not seldom in a not very good way. Go abroad and stay humble, and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 6:08 pm
mp3jrick
Thank you for responding sjursjur, this is exactly what I am asking for, do continue when you have more time.
You need to understand our side of things also. It is very difficult to be PROUD when thoughts and feelings are expressed such as this. As far as the BEST country, we know nothing different. Personally, I'd much rather be on a desert island in the Carribean sucking on coconuts, the whole world and it's problems can kiss my @$$, I dont need or want to hear it.
Guilty of selfishness and taking things for granted yes, but not arrogant IMO. Most of us work our asses off the achieve what we do and have, it just isn't handed out. I have worked 6 days a week since I was 16 and I am nearly 50 now.
We hear the daily counts btw and most of us want the people of Iraq to have their freedom and a normal life complete with an education and to enjoy the fruits of life, FACT. And the sooner that is achieved for them and the sooner our families can come home the better we will like it also, trust me.
It is extremely saddening to hear of the daily violence and death brought on by their own people, don't think it goes unheard or un noticed. Most of us have family over there who VOLUNTEERED to go and insure the people of that country would see better times, and at a astronomical cost to us. they walked away from secure jobs to make 1/4 of their wages and left families who some will never see again.
And sjursjur, I think coming out and asking these questions is pretty humbling, thank you.
I am not exactly a proud American right now, knowing how uncertain the end all will be or when.
I served my country and missed shipping out to Vietnam by 6 months in a war that was far more unpopular. I grew up in high school hearing of my friends older brothers coming back in bags from a war that nobody wanted forced to realize that I was probably going next, no reservations needed, just zip me up when you toss my body in the plane.
So lets try to keep it civil here, going abroad isn't an option, give me credit for at least caring enough to ask please.
You need to understand our side of things also. It is very difficult to be PROUD when thoughts and feelings are expressed such as this. As far as the BEST country, we know nothing different. Personally, I'd much rather be on a desert island in the Carribean sucking on coconuts, the whole world and it's problems can kiss my @$$, I dont need or want to hear it.
Guilty of selfishness and taking things for granted yes, but not arrogant IMO. Most of us work our asses off the achieve what we do and have, it just isn't handed out. I have worked 6 days a week since I was 16 and I am nearly 50 now.
We hear the daily counts btw and most of us want the people of Iraq to have their freedom and a normal life complete with an education and to enjoy the fruits of life, FACT. And the sooner that is achieved for them and the sooner our families can come home the better we will like it also, trust me.
It is extremely saddening to hear of the daily violence and death brought on by their own people, don't think it goes unheard or un noticed. Most of us have family over there who VOLUNTEERED to go and insure the people of that country would see better times, and at a astronomical cost to us. they walked away from secure jobs to make 1/4 of their wages and left families who some will never see again.
And sjursjur, I think coming out and asking these questions is pretty humbling, thank you.
I am not exactly a proud American right now, knowing how uncertain the end all will be or when.
I served my country and missed shipping out to Vietnam by 6 months in a war that was far more unpopular. I grew up in high school hearing of my friends older brothers coming back in bags from a war that nobody wanted forced to realize that I was probably going next, no reservations needed, just zip me up when you toss my body in the plane.
So lets try to keep it civil here, going abroad isn't an option, give me credit for at least caring enough to ask please.
geposted Wed 05 Jan 05 @ 7:13 pm
