Djratedxxx919
Virtual dj you might think these Ideas arent worthy, but remix decks(which has to be done a certain way) is a great feature. Next is Time correction(warping), warping would be major...MAJOR....but I guess you guess dont think so....
geposted Wed 13 Dec 17 @ 10:11 pm
klausmogensen
It's also not simple. There are several discussion on this forum on how it should be implemented. All have pros and cons and implications
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 5:47 am
klausmogensen
Now I'm at a real keyboard, so a bit more info:
No live DJing program really does this, so there is really no right way
The suggestions I have seen kind of falls into these categories:
1. Auto-nudging. VDJ nudge the track, and maybe change pitch slightly, whenever it goes to far away from the BPM. This BPM can then be detected or manually altered. This is much like you would do it manually yourself
Pro: It's simple, and should be do-able in VDJ
Con: You may be able to hear it happening
2. Live warping the track, either on load or while playing. Since the feature can be disabled and enabled for a track, it can't really be in the analyze phase. Phone aps that tries to do this on tracks already exists
Pro: As easy to use as key lock
Con: Will take a lot of power. May end up with sound artifacts
3. Pre-warping, like Ableton does it. You create a new file with an edit of the track, like you do when you use the Track Cleaner in VDJ. You then end up having an original track and a warped edit of the track
Pro: No issues when playing the track - the work is already done
Con: You end up with 2 or more tracks - you may mess it up when you choose which one to play
Then there is the question of the scope:
Should the whole track be warped, or should you be able to pick sections to warp
Whole track - pro: Simple to do and simple to use the result - just 1 bpm
Whole track - con: When done on tracks that really use variable BPM as part of the tracks feel, like "superstition", the result sounds horrible to some people (like musicians)
Part of track - pro: You only make changes to maybe the beginning and the end of the track where your mixing happens. The rest of the track still sounds organic
Part of track con: Harder to use. You need to select what to warp, and you need to know that the BPM will be different when you get to the mixing section
If I was the one to make the choise, it would be Pre-warping with new edits, and only sections of tracks
No live DJing program really does this, so there is really no right way
The suggestions I have seen kind of falls into these categories:
1. Auto-nudging. VDJ nudge the track, and maybe change pitch slightly, whenever it goes to far away from the BPM. This BPM can then be detected or manually altered. This is much like you would do it manually yourself
Pro: It's simple, and should be do-able in VDJ
Con: You may be able to hear it happening
2. Live warping the track, either on load or while playing. Since the feature can be disabled and enabled for a track, it can't really be in the analyze phase. Phone aps that tries to do this on tracks already exists
Pro: As easy to use as key lock
Con: Will take a lot of power. May end up with sound artifacts
3. Pre-warping, like Ableton does it. You create a new file with an edit of the track, like you do when you use the Track Cleaner in VDJ. You then end up having an original track and a warped edit of the track
Pro: No issues when playing the track - the work is already done
Con: You end up with 2 or more tracks - you may mess it up when you choose which one to play
Then there is the question of the scope:
Should the whole track be warped, or should you be able to pick sections to warp
Whole track - pro: Simple to do and simple to use the result - just 1 bpm
Whole track - con: When done on tracks that really use variable BPM as part of the tracks feel, like "superstition", the result sounds horrible to some people (like musicians)
Part of track - pro: You only make changes to maybe the beginning and the end of the track where your mixing happens. The rest of the track still sounds organic
Part of track con: Harder to use. You need to select what to warp, and you need to know that the BPM will be different when you get to the mixing section
If I was the one to make the choise, it would be Pre-warping with new edits, and only sections of tracks
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 8:56 am
Djratedxxx919
klausmogensen wrote :
Now I'm at a real keyboard, so a bit more info:
No live DJing program really does this, so there is really no right way
The suggestions I have seen kind of falls into these categories:
1. Auto-nudging. VDJ nudge the track, and maybe change pitch slightly, whenever it goes to far away from the BPM. This BPM can then be detected or manually altered. This is much like you would do it manually yourself
Pro: It's simple, and should be do-able in VDJ
Con: You may be able to hear it happening
2. Live warping the track, either on load or while playing. Since the feature can be disabled and enabled for a track, it can't really be in the analyze phase. Phone aps that tries to do this on tracks already exists
Pro: As easy to use as key lock
Con: Will take a lot of power. May end up with sound artifacts
3. Pre-warping, like Ableton does it. You create a new file with an edit of the track, like you do when you use the Track Cleaner in VDJ. You then end up having an original track and a warped edit of the track
Pro: No issues when playing the track - the work is already done
Con: You end up with 2 or more tracks - you may mess it up when you choose which one to play
Then there is the question of the scope:
Should the whole track be warped, or should you be able to pick sections to warp
Whole track - pro: Simple to do and simple to use the result - just 1 bpm
Whole track - con: When done on tracks that really use variable BPM as part of the tracks feel, like "superstition", the result sounds horrible to some people (like musicians)
Part of track - pro: You only make changes to maybe the beginning and the end of the track where your mixing happens. The rest of the track still sounds organic
Part of track con: Harder to use. You need to select what to warp, and you need to know that the BPM will be different when you get to the mixing section
If I was the one to make the choise, it would be Pre-warping with new edits, and only sections of tracks
No live DJing program really does this, so there is really no right way
The suggestions I have seen kind of falls into these categories:
1. Auto-nudging. VDJ nudge the track, and maybe change pitch slightly, whenever it goes to far away from the BPM. This BPM can then be detected or manually altered. This is much like you would do it manually yourself
Pro: It's simple, and should be do-able in VDJ
Con: You may be able to hear it happening
2. Live warping the track, either on load or while playing. Since the feature can be disabled and enabled for a track, it can't really be in the analyze phase. Phone aps that tries to do this on tracks already exists
Pro: As easy to use as key lock
Con: Will take a lot of power. May end up with sound artifacts
3. Pre-warping, like Ableton does it. You create a new file with an edit of the track, like you do when you use the Track Cleaner in VDJ. You then end up having an original track and a warped edit of the track
Pro: No issues when playing the track - the work is already done
Con: You end up with 2 or more tracks - you may mess it up when you choose which one to play
Then there is the question of the scope:
Should the whole track be warped, or should you be able to pick sections to warp
Whole track - pro: Simple to do and simple to use the result - just 1 bpm
Whole track - con: When done on tracks that really use variable BPM as part of the tracks feel, like "superstition", the result sounds horrible to some people (like musicians)
Part of track - pro: You only make changes to maybe the beginning and the end of the track where your mixing happens. The rest of the track still sounds organic
Part of track con: Harder to use. You need to select what to warp, and you need to know that the BPM will be different when you get to the mixing section
If I was the one to make the choise, it would be Pre-warping with new edits, and only sections of tracks
Statements 1 and 2 are not considered and not part of the feature only statement 3 applies..
This would be done in prep mode only Example The Silver Remix skin prep mode.
As far as the files. Not only can you save as a warped file but also the option to overwrite the original file keeping all tag data intact.
As far as scope, of course, the scope is the complete track. So I can take superstition and mix the whole song with what even and however my crazy mind thinks.. most if not up to 90% of the music being mixed is 4/4 some with some with 3/4 so you can always properly correct the drummer. And the mixing of disco and house would be hella easier, as one example, no floating drummer. Most adjustments would be small so there would be little to any change in BPM or key.
For every feature, I have mapped out its capabilities and how to implement it into the software. And always willing to share it...with the help of other users theres even a skin prototype of remix decks
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 2:59 pm
klausmogensen
You seem very sure about your statements
- and I don't really agree with any of them
This may actually be one of the most incorrect things I have read on this forum:
That really gave me the chills. Scary!
(Yes, I'm a drummer first, and a DJ second)
So I'll just let you do your own thing here...
- and I don't really agree with any of them
This may actually be one of the most incorrect things I have read on this forum:
Djratedxxx919 wrote :
so you can always properly correct the drummer
That really gave me the chills. Scary!
(Yes, I'm a drummer first, and a DJ second)
So I'll just let you do your own thing here...
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 3:05 pm
Djratedxxx919
Dont know what about timing scares you... since the beginning every drummer tried to keep in rhythm but humans are flawed so the human floats...correcting your tracks doesnt alter anything noticeable to the listener but benefits djs such as myself that like to do a wide range of mix. Coming from 1200s, coming from a blend and mix background using up to 4 turntables that constant timing would have been easier...but in this digital world these limits shouldnt exist. Ever dream and wish of the DJ should be put in DJ software. And remix decks also shouldnt be a second thought. Should be a standard. All the things you thought would ill if you could do...is now possible... Except the companies dont listen to the DJs except to tell them it doesnt make since or it cant be done..until its done by another software. But warping in a DJ software would be an industry shocker...every other software soon follow suit. Im a hiphop dj and see remix decks very useful...my thing is do edm/house djs see the same possibilities, because this feature benefits them more than any other dj. Master Mix will have a whole nother level....
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 4:46 pm
groovindj
klausmogensen wrote :
like "superstition", the result sounds horrible to some people (like musicians)
like "superstition", the result sounds horrible to some people (like musicians)
Funny you should mention that particular track. One DJ I know from another forum wanted a warped version to play at his gigs so he could mix it. I made a version for him.
I also played that same warped version regularly at a residency I had over a two year period, and was not aware of anyone disliking it over that entire time (including musicians working there as staff, so hearing it often).
IMO warping in VDJ (if it ever happens) should be implemented in a similar fashion to Ableton Live. If it ain't broke, don't fix it - and Live's way of doing things is really quick and easy.
FYI Live creates a secondary (small) file for each track it warps, that contains the warp info, so there's no need to save a new copy of the track if you're only going to be playing it within the software. VDJ could save that same data per track in the database, so the HDD wouldn't fill up with thousands of tiny files.
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 5:51 pm
MrDjLinton
funnier still, superstition, sir duke and signed sealed delivered are the only tracks that DO need warping for me as I play those tracks out live the most. I've never learned to use Ableton properly (I've tried a few times and just like when i read locodogs scripts my damn dyslexic brain kicks in and.......*&^%$)(...I give up lol)
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 6:01 pm
music234
Time for warp. 1+ from me.
And if you don't like any warped results: who tell you to use them?
Give the user an option, and all will be happy.
And if you don't like any warped results: who tell you to use them?
Give the user an option, and all will be happy.
geposted Thu 14 Dec 17 @ 7:10 pm