Kristof St
Hi all, due to certain background-actions I can't seem to make my HP laptop Latency-spike-free.
I tried all sorts of things (uninstall HP bloatware, update drivers, ...) but LatencyMon still gives spikes.
The less than a year ago bought laptop came with a pre-installed Win10 (including all sorts of HP software).
I'm planning on re-installing Win10 (without the unnecessary HP balast).
I did backup of my music files and the VDJ folders from My Documents to also re-install VDJ8.2 afterwards.
Are my personal settings (Preferences/Options) also included in the backup of the VDJ Folders ? Or should I make screenshots of the settings to set as they were ?
Must I LOG OUT in Preferences/Licence/User ? And must I uninstall current Infinity VDJ8.2 version before re-installing Win10 ?
Thx!
I tried all sorts of things (uninstall HP bloatware, update drivers, ...) but LatencyMon still gives spikes.
The less than a year ago bought laptop came with a pre-installed Win10 (including all sorts of HP software).
I'm planning on re-installing Win10 (without the unnecessary HP balast).
I did backup of my music files and the VDJ folders from My Documents to also re-install VDJ8.2 afterwards.
Are my personal settings (Preferences/Options) also included in the backup of the VDJ Folders ? Or should I make screenshots of the settings to set as they were ?
Must I LOG OUT in Preferences/Licence/User ? And must I uninstall current Infinity VDJ8.2 version before re-installing Win10 ?
Thx!
geposted Thu 12 Apr 18 @ 1:00 pm
kradcliffe
You're best to reformat the laptop with a fresh non-OEM copy of Windows 10. Any devices not found you will get the drivers from the HP website.
Put the music in exactly the same location and user, install VDJ then overwrite the documents>virtualDJ folder with the folder from the previous install then it will work exactly as before.
You don't need to logout or uninstall, when you start the new install of VDJ it will ask you to login and create a new licence.dat file.
Put the music in exactly the same location and user, install VDJ then overwrite the documents>virtualDJ folder with the folder from the previous install then it will work exactly as before.
You don't need to logout or uninstall, when you start the new install of VDJ it will ask you to login and create a new licence.dat file.
geposted Thu 12 Apr 18 @ 1:05 pm
Kristof St
As a (current) Windows 10 Home Edition user, can I download a non-OEM copy of Win10 to re-install ?
Or do you mean format and re-install Windows (taken from the Windows Support website) ? = (put Windows .iso file (via Windows Tool) on USB stick and start installation via USB stick).
Or do you mean format and re-install Windows (taken from the Windows Support website) ? = (put Windows .iso file (via Windows Tool) on USB stick and start installation via USB stick).
geposted Thu 12 Apr 18 @ 1:29 pm
Don Moir
I can't remember the last time I had to reinstall windows or format my hard drive. I realize some of you do that as a matter of fact. You should mention how your CPU is doing. Trying to find the problem without reinstalling will teach you more about your computer. You can check whats running in task manager. If something is spiking do an end process on it. I know you are trying to trouble shoot and not getting very far, but unloading apps and reinstalling will probably not help unless something has really gone bad. Check your CPU numbers first.
You might have to purchase windows if you go that route but I don't know. Probably not going to help anyway.
You might have to purchase windows if you go that route but I don't know. Probably not going to help anyway.
geposted Thu 12 Apr 18 @ 2:26 pm
Kristof St
Since it's not such a big deal to do a re-install of Win10 (DJ-dedicated laptop, besides VDJ8.2 no extra software is/was installed), I did a re-install anyway.
That way I have a clean(er) OS system.
No unnecessary luxury :-)
I also discovered that in Device Manager the Microsoft ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery was causing spikes in my LatencyMon. Disabling this brings my Latency to acceptable values (no extreme spikes for about 20 minutes running LatencyMon).
A websearch learned me that disabling this has no consequences on the OS operation of my system.
Only 'downside' is that the battery icon is no longer showing, so you don't see how much battery you have left or if the battery is charging (= laptop is connected to electricity network).
No big issue for me since I always work with adapter plugged in electricity (never on battery).
I also saw many people are having (Latency) issues due to the Microsoft ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery, with al sorts of laptop brands and music software.
It would be great if VDJ would show some kind of indication in the skin that system is running on battery or connected to electricity network.
So when VDJ is in Full Screen mode, you'll see if you're connected to electricity network or (in case something is wrong with electricity, socket not plugged in, adapter broke, adapter connection not (fully) plugged in the laptop) you immediately see there's something wrong with the power.
That way the ACPI (causing Latency issues on many music systems it seems) will not be missed when using VDJ.
That way I have a clean(er) OS system.
No unnecessary luxury :-)
I also discovered that in Device Manager the Microsoft ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery was causing spikes in my LatencyMon. Disabling this brings my Latency to acceptable values (no extreme spikes for about 20 minutes running LatencyMon).
A websearch learned me that disabling this has no consequences on the OS operation of my system.
Only 'downside' is that the battery icon is no longer showing, so you don't see how much battery you have left or if the battery is charging (= laptop is connected to electricity network).
No big issue for me since I always work with adapter plugged in electricity (never on battery).
I also saw many people are having (Latency) issues due to the Microsoft ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery, with al sorts of laptop brands and music software.
It would be great if VDJ would show some kind of indication in the skin that system is running on battery or connected to electricity network.
So when VDJ is in Full Screen mode, you'll see if you're connected to electricity network or (in case something is wrong with electricity, socket not plugged in, adapter broke, adapter connection not (fully) plugged in the laptop) you immediately see there's something wrong with the power.
That way the ACPI (causing Latency issues on many music systems it seems) will not be missed when using VDJ.
geposted Fri 13 Apr 18 @ 3:57 pm
Adion
How would VDJ be able to know if you're using battery if you disabled ACPI?
geposted Fri 13 Apr 18 @ 5:23 pm
Kristof St
Hmz, good point Adion. No way to work around this battery ACPI it seems.
The frustrating thing is, the battery ACPI seems to be the reason for Latency spikes on my system.
ACPI (battery) Enabled = red LatencyMon message (already after few minutes): System appears to be having trouble handling realtime audio and drop outs ...
(Even tried with other (HP) battery power adapter, no difference. So battery power adapter-fault is also excluded)
ACPI (battery) Disabled = Green LatencyMon message (after more than 50 minutes): System appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
But because of that (battery ACPI disabled), I have no indication my system is performing on power grid or battery (which can be useful in some cases).
And still, the APCI seems to remain active because 'The Highest reported DPC routine execution time (µs)' in LatencyMon is: ACPI.sys - ACPI Driver for NT, Microsoft Corporation. Al tough not spiking (highest execution = 0,2 ms).
Besides the lack of the battery icon (and constant screening of the battery) , is there an other downside to the disabled battery ACPI ?
Pffffffffffff very annoying and frustrating. New latop (august 2017). Only clean Windows 10 (re)installed for now and already not able to be stable, unless disabling certain functions.
The frustrating thing is, the battery ACPI seems to be the reason for Latency spikes on my system.
ACPI (battery) Enabled = red LatencyMon message (already after few minutes): System appears to be having trouble handling realtime audio and drop outs ...
(Even tried with other (HP) battery power adapter, no difference. So battery power adapter-fault is also excluded)
ACPI (battery) Disabled = Green LatencyMon message (after more than 50 minutes): System appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
But because of that (battery ACPI disabled), I have no indication my system is performing on power grid or battery (which can be useful in some cases).
And still, the APCI seems to remain active because 'The Highest reported DPC routine execution time (µs)' in LatencyMon is: ACPI.sys - ACPI Driver for NT, Microsoft Corporation. Al tough not spiking (highest execution = 0,2 ms).
Besides the lack of the battery icon (and constant screening of the battery) , is there an other downside to the disabled battery ACPI ?
Pffffffffffff very annoying and frustrating. New latop (august 2017). Only clean Windows 10 (re)installed for now and already not able to be stable, unless disabling certain functions.
geposted Fri 13 Apr 18 @ 9:50 pm
kradcliffe
Unless you are getting audible audio dropouts then it's nothing to worry about.
My Windows 8.1 DJ machine shows spikes too but it's ran perfectly with various controllers for over 3 years.
Some people read in to the latency monitor too much for nothing.
My Windows 8.1 DJ machine shows spikes too but it's ran perfectly with various controllers for over 3 years.
Some people read in to the latency monitor too much for nothing.
geposted Fri 13 Apr 18 @ 10:13 pm
Kristof St
kradcliffe: I'm trying to solve a problem (issue) I experienced several times now.
When DJing (VDJ 8.2 + Denon MCX8000 Controller) for several hours, my music start containing cracks (comparable to scratches on a vinyl record).
Never had this issue before with my other (previous) laptop (HP) and software (Traktor Pro 2).
Now, with my new laptop (HP, bought august 2017) I started working with VDJ 8.2
I don't know if one has to do with the other.
And if the Latency spikes are causing the issue I'm having?
I just want to get rid of the issue (not very reassuring when I do several hours sets (wedding party's) and sounds starts containing cracks after few hours).
Last saturday it happened again and I solved it by clicking 'Apply' (reactivate the ASIO driver) in Preferences/Audio of VDJ.
That turned out to solve the problem for the time being.
But this issue has an origin. And that's what I'm trying to find. Where is this coming from. What causes this. And finding the cause makes the solving a bit easier (or at least more obvious).
And believe me, if I ask this at the shop where I bought the laptop, the standard answer is 'oooohhhhh, that's a very specific issue. We don't get those issues often. We will reinstall Windows (cost: 100 euro) and MAYBE the problem will be solved. If not, we will send the laptop back to HP, because it is still under guarantee'.
Not the answer you want to hear as a DJ with bookings almost every weekend ...
Nobody seems to know how to deal with/solve these (Windows OS ? driver ?) sound issues.
So I'll have to try and deal with it myself, since the 'specialists' apparently can't help me.
Latency Monitor provides me with info of my system. If there is no problem there, than the problem has at least nothing to do with my operating system.
It's trying to find the source of the problem by exclusion of sudden factors.
What else can I do :-)
Believe me, if it wasn't for the sound issue I'm having, I would be focusing on the Latency Mon so hard.
My philosophy is: If it isn't broken, no need to fix it.
But something IS broken, so I need to find it and fix it :-)
When DJing (VDJ 8.2 + Denon MCX8000 Controller) for several hours, my music start containing cracks (comparable to scratches on a vinyl record).
Never had this issue before with my other (previous) laptop (HP) and software (Traktor Pro 2).
Now, with my new laptop (HP, bought august 2017) I started working with VDJ 8.2
I don't know if one has to do with the other.
And if the Latency spikes are causing the issue I'm having?
I just want to get rid of the issue (not very reassuring when I do several hours sets (wedding party's) and sounds starts containing cracks after few hours).
Last saturday it happened again and I solved it by clicking 'Apply' (reactivate the ASIO driver) in Preferences/Audio of VDJ.
That turned out to solve the problem for the time being.
But this issue has an origin. And that's what I'm trying to find. Where is this coming from. What causes this. And finding the cause makes the solving a bit easier (or at least more obvious).
And believe me, if I ask this at the shop where I bought the laptop, the standard answer is 'oooohhhhh, that's a very specific issue. We don't get those issues often. We will reinstall Windows (cost: 100 euro) and MAYBE the problem will be solved. If not, we will send the laptop back to HP, because it is still under guarantee'.
Not the answer you want to hear as a DJ with bookings almost every weekend ...
Nobody seems to know how to deal with/solve these (Windows OS ? driver ?) sound issues.
So I'll have to try and deal with it myself, since the 'specialists' apparently can't help me.
Latency Monitor provides me with info of my system. If there is no problem there, than the problem has at least nothing to do with my operating system.
It's trying to find the source of the problem by exclusion of sudden factors.
What else can I do :-)
Believe me, if it wasn't for the sound issue I'm having, I would be focusing on the Latency Mon so hard.
My philosophy is: If it isn't broken, no need to fix it.
But something IS broken, so I need to find it and fix it :-)
geposted Sat 14 Apr 18 @ 12:36 am
kradcliffe
Ah ok... I use the MCX8000 with the Denon Asio drivers and it's fine.
Unfortunately there are some laptops that do not perform well with latency issues. Dell and HP seem to come up regularly regarding this.
Did you try increasing the Asio buffer in the Denonn control panel? My one is set at 512.
Unfortunately there are some laptops that do not perform well with latency issues. Dell and HP seem to come up regularly regarding this.
Did you try increasing the Asio buffer in the Denonn control panel? My one is set at 512.
geposted Sat 14 Apr 18 @ 1:13 am
A Man and His Music
What happens if you use WASAPI drivers?
geposted Sat 14 Apr 18 @ 4:33 am
Kristof St
@kradcliffe: My is also set at 512
@A Man: don't know, haven't tried WASAPI drivers. I prefer to use the native Denon MCX8000 ASIO driver.
I enabled Microsoft Surface ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery after I updated the driver from the Windows website (al tough I did an 'Update driver' before and Windows told me I was already using the latest driver. Apparently it wasn't ...)
System is now running for about 11 hours in AUTOMIX mode. No clicks or cracks. All sound still normal.
Al tough Latency Mon (also running for 11 hours) still shows spikes from ACPI.sys (the ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery for sure because when I disable it, no spikes).
These drivers seem to have the highest execution time (ms):
ACPI.sys = 2,8 ms
Wdf01000.sys = 1,3 ms
All the other driver stay under 1 ms. (Denon driver is 0,9 ms).
Since the system is in AUTOMIX mode for all those hours (so no controller manipulation) and the issue started occurring after using the controller manual (DJing) for several hours, I will do some stress-testing later today and see/hear what happens than.
Will keep you posted.
Thx already for your advice's.
@A Man: don't know, haven't tried WASAPI drivers. I prefer to use the native Denon MCX8000 ASIO driver.
I enabled Microsoft Surface ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery after I updated the driver from the Windows website (al tough I did an 'Update driver' before and Windows told me I was already using the latest driver. Apparently it wasn't ...)
System is now running for about 11 hours in AUTOMIX mode. No clicks or cracks. All sound still normal.
Al tough Latency Mon (also running for 11 hours) still shows spikes from ACPI.sys (the ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery for sure because when I disable it, no spikes).
These drivers seem to have the highest execution time (ms):
ACPI.sys = 2,8 ms
Wdf01000.sys = 1,3 ms
All the other driver stay under 1 ms. (Denon driver is 0,9 ms).
Since the system is in AUTOMIX mode for all those hours (so no controller manipulation) and the issue started occurring after using the controller manual (DJing) for several hours, I will do some stress-testing later today and see/hear what happens than.
Will keep you posted.
Thx already for your advice's.
geposted Sat 14 Apr 18 @ 1:22 pm
A Man and His Music
Yeah, I preferred to use the Denon ASIO drivers on my MC6000. They would work for awhile, and then go to crap. I am not the only one to not be able to use Denon ASIO drivers. Do I want to use Denon drivers with pops and clicks, or do I want clean sound all night? The MC6000 is still my mobile machine, and I have only used WASAPI. Maybe a robot can tell the difference, but not one of my clients or guest has every said, "Hey, I bet if you used the Denon drivers, you would sound better".
geposted Sat 14 Apr 18 @ 9:11 pm
groovindj
If you read up on WASAPI you will see that it's quoted as having "benefits similar to those provided by ASIO drivers". It's basically Microsoft's answer to the issue of having to install ASIO drivers to get decent performance.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/low-latency-audio
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/low-latency-audio
geposted Sat 14 Apr 18 @ 9:16 pm
Kristof St
So yesterday my system was up and running for over 20 hours, non stop. First 17 hours in AUTOMIX mode, last 3 hours I took over and did some manual testing (DJing).
I stress tested my system by working in 4 decks mode, using FX's, loading songs quickly, looping, ...
Sound staid stable. No clicks or plops.
Since there were some 'changes' to my system compared to setup I was using when the clicks and plops occurred (Re-installed Win10 (getting rid of the HP bloatware), re-installed the Denon Driver, manually updated some (ACPI) drivers) I can't finger point what did the trick.
No matter what it was, I hope I'm 'out of the fire' now. Future (DJ sets in the coming weeks) will tell ...
Regarding the WASAPI: I will certainly look into that if sound issue's should appear again.
Thx for the tip A Man & groovindj ! Appreciate it !
Denon is also testing new firmware as we speak. Meaning that shortly there will be a (finally !!!!) a firmware update for the MCX8000 ...
I stress tested my system by working in 4 decks mode, using FX's, loading songs quickly, looping, ...
Sound staid stable. No clicks or plops.
Since there were some 'changes' to my system compared to setup I was using when the clicks and plops occurred (Re-installed Win10 (getting rid of the HP bloatware), re-installed the Denon Driver, manually updated some (ACPI) drivers) I can't finger point what did the trick.
No matter what it was, I hope I'm 'out of the fire' now. Future (DJ sets in the coming weeks) will tell ...
Regarding the WASAPI: I will certainly look into that if sound issue's should appear again.
Thx for the tip A Man & groovindj ! Appreciate it !
Denon is also testing new firmware as we speak. Meaning that shortly there will be a (finally !!!!) a firmware update for the MCX8000 ...
geposted Sun 15 Apr 18 @ 2:09 pm
Kristof St
Did a 10 hour set yesterday (5 hours background music (AUTOMIX) + 5 hours live DJ'ing).
No sound problems or issues occurred ...
All went well
No sound problems or issues occurred ...
All went well
geposted Sun 22 Apr 18 @ 5:50 pm