Tear Em 'Up
OK, I'm in a bit of a crossroads. Would not mind some input from the crowd, please. One of my Emcees has been giving me some issues for a while now, a little over a year. He himself is not really the issue, but his Mrs is. If he wants to use my gear, he may for a cost. We agreed to 20% of his pay for the night if I do not work the job with him (which in this area is way lower than most. Most people I know get 50%). His wife however thinks differently. Her logic is if the equipment is just going to sit anyway he owes me nothing, unless something breaks. To his credit he has backed me up, but she talks a bit and it has gotten back to me several times.
Last night my emcee "borrowed" some gear for a family party. Company policy I set up is....family is free. The rub? He did not tell me he was going to be using one of my systems. The way I found out was while doing my weekly inspection I found things out of place and one thing broken. So, I made some calls and discovered what he had done (a 60th b-day for his sister) and where.
I don't mind, as stated family is free. But, he should have informed me. Also, he should have told me something broke during his gig. When I called him out on it he said it just slipped his mind.
He has been with me for five years. Things have gotten worse over that course of time. He drinks too much on the J-O-B, and when it comes time to do any heavy lifting seems to turn up missing (this is so often my other people joke about not being, lets call him Fred). He also has a history of working for other DJs, which I can't stop, he does not have an exclusive contract. And "sharing" my ideas and legal forms with them. It is too the point that unless he books the job no one wants to work with him.
I am considering, one more talk with him (this would be number 12). Or, parting ways, and trying to do so amicably. I know several people here own companies like I do and would appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks in advance T (p.s. feel free to ask questions, as most of you know I am pretty open about sharing my thoughts.)
Last night my emcee "borrowed" some gear for a family party. Company policy I set up is....family is free. The rub? He did not tell me he was going to be using one of my systems. The way I found out was while doing my weekly inspection I found things out of place and one thing broken. So, I made some calls and discovered what he had done (a 60th b-day for his sister) and where.
I don't mind, as stated family is free. But, he should have informed me. Also, he should have told me something broke during his gig. When I called him out on it he said it just slipped his mind.
He has been with me for five years. Things have gotten worse over that course of time. He drinks too much on the J-O-B, and when it comes time to do any heavy lifting seems to turn up missing (this is so often my other people joke about not being, lets call him Fred). He also has a history of working for other DJs, which I can't stop, he does not have an exclusive contract. And "sharing" my ideas and legal forms with them. It is too the point that unless he books the job no one wants to work with him.
I am considering, one more talk with him (this would be number 12). Or, parting ways, and trying to do so amicably. I know several people here own companies like I do and would appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks in advance T (p.s. feel free to ask questions, as most of you know I am pretty open about sharing my thoughts.)
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 12:57 pm
ShyneGTA
I think the hardest thing to do is to put that friendship of 5 years at risk.
Personally, ive always had an issue with coworkers/promoters drinking too much while on the job, this is why I ask to be paid as soon as i start spinning (have had issues with people take off to bang some chik, too drunk, take off to get someone off the hook at a bar fight down the road, etc).
The point is this, I always make it well known in advance, personal stuff is separate from business, at my age im doing it for the money and because i like what i do, and if i slip, there is no shortage of djs out there that are waiting for me to move over so they can have a shot at the gigs ive got. And thats the reality of this business.
I think you have to be clear and to the point when you lay down the rules. I've had a few business offers from friends and people in the industry, but because of their drinking habits and work ethics ive turn them down, some have never spoken to me again and are doing well, others have followed a course of self destruction, yet im still doing well, and my bills are being paid, better still, those who choose to do business with me know what to expect from me, and the people i do business with, and appreciate the professionalism...
My 2 cents...
Personally, ive always had an issue with coworkers/promoters drinking too much while on the job, this is why I ask to be paid as soon as i start spinning (have had issues with people take off to bang some chik, too drunk, take off to get someone off the hook at a bar fight down the road, etc).
The point is this, I always make it well known in advance, personal stuff is separate from business, at my age im doing it for the money and because i like what i do, and if i slip, there is no shortage of djs out there that are waiting for me to move over so they can have a shot at the gigs ive got. And thats the reality of this business.
I think you have to be clear and to the point when you lay down the rules. I've had a few business offers from friends and people in the industry, but because of their drinking habits and work ethics ive turn them down, some have never spoken to me again and are doing well, others have followed a course of self destruction, yet im still doing well, and my bills are being paid, better still, those who choose to do business with me know what to expect from me, and the people i do business with, and appreciate the professionalism...
My 2 cents...
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 1:21 pm
digitalwiz
well my friend...
this is a touchy situation
Five years is a long time.....
however it is not necessarily a good thing to have friends or relatives in business (well it works for Indians and Chinese)
What you must consider is how much this friendship means in comparison to profitability/stress of the situation.
Seems to me that you are about up to your neck in dealing with him too... and simply struggle on...because of the friendship
It also seems that he survives off you... (as to taking advantage of your generosity...then that may be a bummer
1. If you let him go.. can he support himself....
.....ANS you will not find out until you do
2. Will the friendship end.. if you let him go
.....ANS. Chances are that it will... (he will not see.. it from your point of view... and will think you were the one taking advantage)
3. Does he think you will let him go
.....ANS. No he does not.. you have spoken to him like 12 times already.. probably much more
3. What should you do?
.....ANS. Instead of firing him outright.. here are some possible options
a. Tell him that you are thinking of firing him ... state your reasons..including how he handles things etc.
b. Tell him you have decided instead to put him on suspension for a month,without pay..... state that during
. this time he is free to look for work otherwise
c. At the end of the month.. if he has not found work.. you will take him back under the
. condition that he would have adjusted his behaviour
d. If he does come back place him on another three months probation which he signs to... this will help to put him
. in a situation to change... or to quit.
Long and short... if he flares up and walks immediately ...then it was his decision not yours
If he finds no new work in the month.. then you know that he may not survive
also he may understand more this dependence on you and not you taking advantage of him
If he does find another job then..... problem solved .. might thank you later too
if he stays then it is under a new system knowing that his is liable for his actions.. and knows that he has to shape up or face the consequences of losing job altogether
Whichever happens.. at least friendship wise u level with him
hope this helps..kinda talking from experience.. here and it was not a friend it was a brother
this is a touchy situation
Five years is a long time.....
however it is not necessarily a good thing to have friends or relatives in business (well it works for Indians and Chinese)
What you must consider is how much this friendship means in comparison to profitability/stress of the situation.
Seems to me that you are about up to your neck in dealing with him too... and simply struggle on...because of the friendship
It also seems that he survives off you... (as to taking advantage of your generosity...then that may be a bummer
1. If you let him go.. can he support himself....
.....ANS you will not find out until you do
2. Will the friendship end.. if you let him go
.....ANS. Chances are that it will... (he will not see.. it from your point of view... and will think you were the one taking advantage)
3. Does he think you will let him go
.....ANS. No he does not.. you have spoken to him like 12 times already.. probably much more
3. What should you do?
.....ANS. Instead of firing him outright.. here are some possible options
a. Tell him that you are thinking of firing him ... state your reasons..including how he handles things etc.
b. Tell him you have decided instead to put him on suspension for a month,without pay..... state that during
. this time he is free to look for work otherwise
c. At the end of the month.. if he has not found work.. you will take him back under the
. condition that he would have adjusted his behaviour
d. If he does come back place him on another three months probation which he signs to... this will help to put him
. in a situation to change... or to quit.
Long and short... if he flares up and walks immediately ...then it was his decision not yours
If he finds no new work in the month.. then you know that he may not survive
also he may understand more this dependence on you and not you taking advantage of him
If he does find another job then..... problem solved .. might thank you later too
if he stays then it is under a new system knowing that his is liable for his actions.. and knows that he has to shape up or face the consequences of losing job altogether
Whichever happens.. at least friendship wise u level with him
hope this helps..kinda talking from experience.. here and it was not a friend it was a brother
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 2:52 pm
sirkitbreaker
well I look at this from the DJ working for someone else view. I always run my self as my own bussiness so even working for someone else I treat the company like it was my own. AS a manager and qwner of my own little art coglomerate I would not tolorate that at all. It looks bad on you. And everyone knows the club/dj scene is small. Every client/venue IS looking to fire YOU for the next big thing or the route that brings them more money ( either cheaper fees or more guest). But the ONE THING I would never tolorate is lies and deception. He took YOUR equiptment, broke it and hid it. Something my step children even learned not to do. So that being said I woul either get rid of him or charge him more for equiptment rental. The reason behind that is the increase may cause him to quit on his own.
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 3:39 pm
Tear Em 'Up
For point of clarification...I do private events. I.E. Weddings Corporate events..etc.etc.etc. I am enjoying the feedback, please continue....
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 3:52 pm
erxon
I'll keep it simple. Sometimes personal relationships must end to keep the business
running, especially if that relationship is not that much of a friendship type anyway.
State your rules and reasons, give a man another chance, everyone deserves it.
But esentially it's the business that is a priority.
running, especially if that relationship is not that much of a friendship type anyway.
State your rules and reasons, give a man another chance, everyone deserves it.
But esentially it's the business that is a priority.
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 4:22 pm
I think you should put these issues down on paper and discuss them all very directly with him . Have the notice state that if any of these issues return over the next 30 days that he faces definite suspension and even possible termination . Both of you sign and date . Have him actually write out this phrase " I understand this performance review and I understand the possible penalties " Fred
you've mentioned him before haven't you ?
I don't think you're getting his attention .
you've mentioned him before haven't you ?
I don't think you're getting his attention .
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 5:53 pm
DJ Marcel_1
He is representing you and your Name - Not his.
When I sub-contract I only get 50% of the invoice. howver it's better than sitting at home.
If I understand you correctly he is renting your gear to do his own events?
20% rental fee is MORE than fair.
You have a standing policy of free for family. not bad; but being taken advantage of sucks.
By not telling you and then Breaking something - that's being taken advantage of.
I would:
Have the repair bill either deducted from his next pay period, or little longer.
Have him sign out everything and sign it back in - after being inspected (time allowing)
Unfortunately if you make him decide between a Job and his wife - we all know which choice he'll make.
or Turf him.
You mentioned he does events for other DJ services; He might not be giving your events or gear the same importance as others.
When I sub-contract I only get 50% of the invoice. howver it's better than sitting at home.
If I understand you correctly he is renting your gear to do his own events?
20% rental fee is MORE than fair.
You have a standing policy of free for family. not bad; but being taken advantage of sucks.
By not telling you and then Breaking something - that's being taken advantage of.
I would:
Have the repair bill either deducted from his next pay period, or little longer.
Have him sign out everything and sign it back in - after being inspected (time allowing)
Unfortunately if you make him decide between a Job and his wife - we all know which choice he'll make.
or Turf him.
You mentioned he does events for other DJ services; He might not be giving your events or gear the same importance as others.
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 6:05 pm
Tear Em 'Up
DJ Marcel_1 wrote :
You mentioned he does events for other DJ services; He might not be giving your events or gear the same importance as others.
This thought has crossed my mind more than once Marcel......
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 6:08 pm
ShyneGTA
I agree, this person that works for you is the face of your company at that specific time, and that is the face and attitude your customers will see and remember for future gigs.
You must ask yourself the following?
1 - Is the friendship worth the stress?
2 - Does the individual produce and make you profitable?
3 - Are you happy with his contributions? (friendship & business)
4 - Do you have other prospects that may replace him?
5 - What repercussions will you have to deal with business wise with and without him?
You must ask yourself the following?
1 - Is the friendship worth the stress?
2 - Does the individual produce and make you profitable?
3 - Are you happy with his contributions? (friendship & business)
4 - Do you have other prospects that may replace him?
5 - What repercussions will you have to deal with business wise with and without him?
geposted Sat 03 Jan 09 @ 8:22 pm
Charlie Wilson
I've always wanted to be like this guy, it must be brilliant just take, take, take and fuck everyone off in the process and still get paid for it and have gear available as n when do do family party's. Can I have a job!
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 10:41 am
Tear Em 'Up
Charlie Wilson wrote :
I've always wanted to be like this guy, it must be brilliant just take, take, take and fuck everyone off in the process and still get paid for it and have gear available as n when do do family party's. Can I have a job!
Sure Charlie..I hope the commute is not too rough on you.....
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 11:09 am
bogart
Terry;
This is a tough decision for you, however:
First off I don't think it is right for him to be
drinking on the job. (that's just me though).
As others have stated, you have spoken to him 12 times already.
Apparently your friendship means a lot, and it is crossing
into the business end.
Your business has to remain separate from your friendship.
This is a tough decision for you, however:
First off I don't think it is right for him to be
drinking on the job. (that's just me though).
As others have stated, you have spoken to him 12 times already.
Apparently your friendship means a lot, and it is crossing
into the business end.
Your business has to remain separate from your friendship.
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 11:26 am
Tear Em 'Up
bogart wrote :
Terry;
This is a tough decision for you, however:
First off I don't think it is right for him to be
drinking on the job. (that's just me though).
As others have stated, you have spoken to him 12 times already.
Apparently your friendship means a lot, and it is crossing
into the business end.
Your business has to remain separate from your friendship.
This is a tough decision for you, however:
First off I don't think it is right for him to be
drinking on the job. (that's just me though).
As others have stated, you have spoken to him 12 times already.
Apparently your friendship means a lot, and it is crossing
into the business end.
Your business has to remain separate from your friendship.
I have said it a thousand times, friends are friends, business is business. Its not just a 5 year friendship, we have known each other since we were 5. This is a 41 year relationship.....
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 11:32 am
bogart
TearEmUp wrote :
I have said it a thousand times, friends are friends, business is business. Its not just a 5 year friendship, we have known each other since we were 5. This is a 41 year relationship.....
bogart wrote :
Terry;
This is a tough decision for you, however:
First off I don't think it is right for him to be
drinking on the job. (that's just me though).
As others have stated, you have spoken to him 12 times already.
Apparently your friendship means a lot, and it is crossing
into the business end.
Your business has to remain separate from your friendship.
This is a tough decision for you, however:
First off I don't think it is right for him to be
drinking on the job. (that's just me though).
As others have stated, you have spoken to him 12 times already.
Apparently your friendship means a lot, and it is crossing
into the business end.
Your business has to remain separate from your friendship.
I have said it a thousand times, friends are friends, business is business. Its not just a 5 year friendship, we have known each other since we were 5. This is a 41 year relationship.....
41 years, that really makes it tougher.
However it seems like maybe he is taking advantage of you.
I may be wrong as you are closer to the situation than any of us.
Maybe you can try talking to him just once more. But be very
clear on what you expect.
I sure would not want to be in this position. This is probably very
tough on you.
I hope you can resolve this amicably.
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 11:46 am
digitalwiz
read my post again..TearEmUp and see the suggestions that I made
It could be a good way of solving it in amicable manner
This is what i did twice.. first with a brother.. the other with one of my workers and friend
brother left on his own steam.. scouted around for options and jobs...... actually found something better than I could offer.. he took it.. and he thanks me for it.. no hard feelings
friend was on suspension for a month.. found out he scouted around for other jobs.... nothing better was on the plate than what i offered
he came back... signed a contract.... probation of three months, after which i made another decision. turned out he change completely around. Still works for me
Both situations worked out.. and no bad blood
It could be a good way of solving it in amicable manner
This is what i did twice.. first with a brother.. the other with one of my workers and friend
brother left on his own steam.. scouted around for options and jobs...... actually found something better than I could offer.. he took it.. and he thanks me for it.. no hard feelings
friend was on suspension for a month.. found out he scouted around for other jobs.... nothing better was on the plate than what i offered
he came back... signed a contract.... probation of three months, after which i made another decision. turned out he change completely around. Still works for me
Both situations worked out.. and no bad blood
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 1:07 pm
marcellodj
My opinion is that friendship is more important than money.
I would lend my equipment to many of my friends for free, AS LONG AS I DON'T GONNA USE IT MYSELF! (If it's a car, a video or some speakers - it doesn't matter!).
With that said, of course they shall pay for any damage done to the things they've lend from me. And when any of my friends damages something that belongs to me (or other friends) it's NORMAL to BEG to replace it with something new (and maybe even better) or fix it.
A friend of a friend of mine crashed my friend's car, and bought a new car worth almost the double of the old. No hard feelings.
Once I've crashed a motorcycle of a other friend of mine, and I ordered new parts and we fixed it together. No hard feelings.
A friend borrowed a DVD, got it back in two pieces. "Sorry, it was a glip. Forgot to tell ya" he said. First time, OK. Second time: This is what I call EX-friend.
You need to figure out what this friendship really means to you. 41 yrs is long time! But people change over time, not always the good way
:( Just makes sure your friend don't chooses "chick in front of dick" (don't get perverse now...), tell him that his chick could ruin your friendship if he become affected in a negative way by her. There are so many friendships ruined over some stupid things like chicks.
I would lend my equipment to many of my friends for free, AS LONG AS I DON'T GONNA USE IT MYSELF! (If it's a car, a video or some speakers - it doesn't matter!).
With that said, of course they shall pay for any damage done to the things they've lend from me. And when any of my friends damages something that belongs to me (or other friends) it's NORMAL to BEG to replace it with something new (and maybe even better) or fix it.
A friend of a friend of mine crashed my friend's car, and bought a new car worth almost the double of the old. No hard feelings.
Once I've crashed a motorcycle of a other friend of mine, and I ordered new parts and we fixed it together. No hard feelings.
A friend borrowed a DVD, got it back in two pieces. "Sorry, it was a glip. Forgot to tell ya" he said. First time, OK. Second time: This is what I call EX-friend.
You need to figure out what this friendship really means to you. 41 yrs is long time! But people change over time, not always the good way
:( Just makes sure your friend don't chooses "chick in front of dick" (don't get perverse now...), tell him that his chick could ruin your friendship if he become affected in a negative way by her. There are so many friendships ruined over some stupid things like chicks.
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 2:56 pm
sirkitbreaker
i choose chic over friendship ..... the chic is now my wife, my best friend and my business partner .......
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 4:44 pm
digitalwiz
@sirkitbreaker great that she is your business partner...
guess you are one of the lucky ones
otherwise.... the rest of you know what i mean
As long as they are not number one, even if for a short time and no matter how it benefits them..... they gonna flare up...
i am in a nice little mess with my missus right now....
because of this DJ stuff.... got me a nice little letter today as a matter of fact....but i best keep my mouth shut
(have two other jobs).. but Djing is the one that has allowed the family to more than just survive.. over the past two years
guess you are one of the lucky ones
otherwise.... the rest of you know what i mean
As long as they are not number one, even if for a short time and no matter how it benefits them..... they gonna flare up...
i am in a nice little mess with my missus right now....
because of this DJ stuff.... got me a nice little letter today as a matter of fact....but i best keep my mouth shut
(have two other jobs).. but Djing is the one that has allowed the family to more than just survive.. over the past two years
geposted Sun 04 Jan 09 @ 9:13 pm
dj-e-lectric
The drinking on the job is all you need to know...dump him or the problems will continue to escalate and they will ALWAYS reflect on you as the employer.....just had to do that with one of my Djs after a drinking (getting drunk) incident at a club involving "forgetting" to pay his tab at the end of the night two weeks in a row. I covered them, he worked it off the next weekend and now is unemployed...alcohol is not EVER an excuse, it is ALWAYS the problem.
geposted Mon 05 Jan 09 @ 7:50 pm
