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Topic: no illegal downloads for me - Page: 2

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So what if you get your music free... Does it make it illegal ? I don't think so... When songs are being released, they give them to djs for free for promotional use. There are so many free promotional download websites where you can get your music from and its legal.
 
Caliente123 wrote :
So what if you get your music free... Does it make it illegal ? I don't think so... When songs are being released, they give them to djs for free for promotional use. There are so many free promotional download websites where you can get your music from and its legal.

Good point. No: if the artist hands out the music for free legally, it's not unethical in the least. The freebie is a promotional tool. We play the music, the audience likes the song, they find out what the song is, and then they're supposed to buy it when it becomes commercially available. The artist gets a cut of the profits.* Illegal, free obtaining of the track isn't supposed to enter into the equation.

Now, if the label legally hands out the track for free without the artist's permission, it's slightly lower on the moral scale, but doesn't enter the realm of immorality. This is because the consequences are meant to be the same: DJ plays song, audience likes song, they pay for song when it comes out. Artist gets a cut of the profits.*

* This is assuming that the label hasn't jilted the artist out of his or her shoes with mumbo-jumbo. It can happen (and I think it's safe to say that it has happened) -- and it's messed up and, yes, completely unethical -- but still legal. Again, this still doesn't give the public the right to pirate the track.
 
Caliente123 wrote :
So what if you get your music free... Does it make it illegal ? I don't think so... When songs are being released, they give them to djs for free for promotional use. There are so many free promotional download websites where you can get your music from and its legal.


True, but the record companies decide which DJs to give them too. Too assume just because you call yourself a DJ does not mean your entitled to the same treatment.....not a shot at you Caliente, just making a point...
 
NowhereManXP wrote :

I'm a film major at Temple University, Philadelphia, PA. When I make movies one day (or at least help to make movies one day), the last thing I want is for some shmoe to hop on the internet and download the movie that's the bread and butter of my occupation without giving me a single cent.


Hey, man. How are you going to make money from your movies anyway? Is some "shmoe" that never paid for anything your target costumer? This makes no sense. Just think about it. You are gonna create something that is going to be available for free download eventually and you will not be able to control it. Why don't you find somebody who will buy your movie and then let them deal with all those problems.

I'm not just some philosopher. I'm a musician myself and totally understand your feelings. But the system is not going to change. We have to change the approach and find another way of making a living from it.
 
@ TE your right about that.....
 
it goes so far beyond the music industry with the rapidly advancing technology today (and the near future). The "music download" issue and the current economic crisis we face now are NOTHING compared to what will come in the next century. We are literally only a few decades away from having any product we want produced and copied digitally and in real time. If you think protecting downloaded music is tough, what do you think about donwloaded Mercedes, Prime Rib and a leather couch....it's almost here and trust me it will shake our current currency based economies to the very core!

I for one thank God for the download music piracy issues we are debating today. It is a trivial thing (in the overall scope of society) to be arguing about and gives us a chance to make our mistakes and learn from them and maybe people will wake up and realize it is just a preview to our whole world being turned upside down and a new model of compensation for ALL jobs, products and intellectual property in general needs to be developed as technology advances.
 
NowhereManXP wrote :
Hey, getting crumbs is better than getting nothing.

Granted: you might attend the concert of an artist whose music you illegally download. But how much of that money goes toward the venue? And to be honest, compared to the total number of people who download the music, what portion of them actually show up at concerts?


You misunderstood my point. I think that artists have every right to get paid for their work. Unfortunetly lions share of the profit goes to the people who had absolutely nothing to do with the creative process, which is think is warped.

And as for the artist getting paid from his/her work...

In legal cases the recording industry usually counts its revenue losses based on the ludicrous "every illegally downloaded album is a one less album sold" -philosophy. This does not take account of these two group of people:

1) People who bought the CD because they first familiarized with it by illegal downloading
2) People who would not buy the CD despite they have not downloaded it illegally

Recently there was a trial against Pirate Bay (I assume everybody knows what it is) in Sweden. In this trial professor Roger Wallis of the Royal Institute of Technology was heard as a witness. According to his research, when taken account everything from decrase in album sales to increase in royalty fares and concert fares, the affect of illegal downloading showed a significant increase in the profits of the music industry.

NowhereManXP wrote :
That's a poor excuse. The industry may suck, but that doesn't mean that people have the right and the excuse to exploit it. Internet piracy effects a lot more than just the music industry. Take what I said above. I'm a film major at Temple University, Philadelphia, PA. When I make movies one day (or at least help to make movies one day), the last thing I want is for some shmoe to hop on the internet and download the movie that's the bread and butter of my occupation without giving me a single cent. You can say "bigwigs," "legal mafia," "what-have-you," but at the end of the day I'm still getting paid something. Which is a lot more than getting paid nothing. I can imagine that many musical artists feel the same way. I can't exactly cite which ones, but the point remains.


It's not an excuse, it's simply a statement of fact. Pirate downloading might be legally and morally wrong, but the reality is that everyone and their mother turned to the illegal alternative because the legal option refused to evolve. It's simply impossible to try to criminalize an entire generation and hunt them down Gestapo style. The police has limited recources and they should be used on bigger problems than ensuring the entertainment industry earns 25 gazillion dollars instead of 20.

The damage is already done, so the only alternative is to invent a completely new earning model which exploits this P2P-phenomenan rather than fighting against it. I have a good example to give you as a case study, a Finnish independent production called Star Wreck. These guys made this Star Wreck vs Babylon 5 scifi-parody and released it as a Torrent for free. It became a huge hit globally. Later they released it on DVD and it still sold like milk.

This is something that you as a future film makes should pay attention to. By the time you're the next Spielberg or Lucas, everything your professors taught you about distribution and marketing is outdated. In the future Shmoe the Downloader is not your worst enemy - he's your best friend.

NowhereManXP wrote :
The industry is massively flawed and corrupt -- and governments turn their heads and twiddle their thumbs to boot. The flaw in your logic above, though, is that it hinges on the idea that the industry will turn inside-out and people will suddenly be willing to pay for music. The former is a lot more likely to happen than the latter. The music industry's practices may be highly unethical, but illegal downloading is less-than-moral as well. Two wrongs do not make a right.


That "two wrongs don't make a right" analogy works both ways. Questionable actions of the recording industry do not morally justify illegal downloading, but that does not morally justify illegal means to fight back the pirates either. Chicken or the egg, eh? ;)

Besides, you misunderstood me again. I don't expect people to start paying for stuff they are used to getting for free. What i'm suggesting is that the entertainment industry needs to do three things:

1) Start seeing the Internet and even P2P as a possibility rather than threat and learn how to use it to their benefit.

2) Start investing in quality rather than volume. That's what draws the paying customers.

3) Stop punishing the paying customers for their own mistakes with crap like RootKit and antipiracy ads in the beginning of movies and DVD's.
 
dj-e-lectric wrote :
it goes so far beyond the music industry with the rapidly advancing technology today (and the near future). The "music download" issue and the current economic crisis we face now are NOTHING compared to what will come in the next century. We are literally only a few decades away from having any product we want produced and copied digitally and in real time. If you think protecting downloaded music is tough, what do you think about donwloaded Mercedes, Prime Rib and a leather couch....it's almost here and trust me it will shake our current currency based economies to the very core!

I for one thank God for the download music piracy issues we are debating today. It is a trivial thing (in the overall scope of society) to be arguing about and gives us a chance to make our mistakes and learn from them and maybe people will wake up and realize it is just a preview to our whole world being turned upside down and a new model of compensation for ALL jobs, products and intellectual property in general needs to be developed as technology advances.


While I applaud you for raising an interesting point, you overlooked one major issue. Digital copies of music and movies are immaterial goods. They do not consume resources (as in physical material) no matter how many copies are made. Physical goods like cars and food will always need raw materials. No matter what religious beliefs you might have, the universe still unfortunetly strictly abides the "something can't come out of nothing" rule :)

In another words, your matter replicator would still require you to feed it materials like metal and plastic in order to make you a Mercedes. It might be that in the future most consumer goods are sold as digital blueprints rather than physical items. Also, raw materials are taxed to compsensate their possible usage for creating pirate goods, just like data storage devices today are taxed for the possibility to house illegally copies of immaterial goods.
 
I was promised a refrigerator that would connect to the internet and download free food way back in 2001 but it's not happening... How long should I wait?

Recently a group of Gypsy hackers illegally downloaded bunch of horses.
=====l=l===l==========
Seriously, the recording labels insist that downloading digital music files is the same as stealing physical product in the store. How about if I buy CD on ebay, make a copy and sell it on ebay for the same price? Is this better? Artists will not get any money from the sale anyway. Should I delete mp3's because I don't have an original CD? What if my 3 year old daughter broke it? Should the store send me a replacement? I don't get this logic. Artists in Russia knows that the pirates who sell illegally copied CD's on swap meets actually help them to get more popularity and they will have a better chance of being invited to perform for money.
 
djfilosoff wrote :
I was promised a refrigerator that would connect to the internet and download free food way back in 2001 but it's not happening... How long should I wait?.


Hey Walt Disney promised us flying cars by the year 2000....still waiting.....
 
well... i've seen an elephant fly
 
Hello, the debate continues. My answer to this mess is to allow downloads but restrict the quality. Make MP3s, Movies, etc. so they end up in mono, or just enough quality to get the idea of the song.

I won't play blocky low-quality YouTube Videos at my nightclub gig. I subscribe to Promo Only's Hot Video and Club Video. I convert to VOB for best sound and audio. I'm glad to see 2 terabyte drives coming out.

Keep quality of sound and video low for downloads, and the public will have their tool to review music, but will need to buy the music to get the good sound and video.

Just write code into the IOS of all those Cisco router running the Internet to compress all packets with the "MP3,AVI,VOB, etc." flag is set in the IP frames. Yeah...right !!!

JimJamHBG
 
An observation:

I played at a club that had live renowned international bands most Thursdays. Every band I asked for material to play at the club provided me with a free CD of their latest material (ironically, some CDs were actual copies of their original store-stock CDs. Go figure). Some band members would actually come all the way up to the DJ’s booth to bring me a copy of their new material. They know that when a DJ plays their song, the band gets more popular and people go out and buy their CD – which is the ULTIMATE goal (as it was pointed out earlier).

Artists want DJs to play their new material - Period. And most artist (if not all) don’t care where or how a DJ gets a hold of their song as long as the DJ plays it. The only ones who care to make DJs pay for their music seem to be the Top Fat Cats at Record Companies who need to make their Boat payment and Mercedes car payment.
 
i guess nobody here has ever contacted label reps? it is possible to get the latest music free, and legal and with the possibility of getting the artist to do drops.
 
It is possible to get everything free. It depends on who you know.....
 
I DO NOT CONDONE ILLEGAL DOWNLOADING BUT as a Recording Artist and Producer myself with BMI publishing and with Platinum Plaque acknowledgement from the RIAA itself (for helping a fellow Recording Artist go Platinum) AND a almost lifelong DJ... I do have the following to say: if ANYONE should have the right to free music from the labels & artists, it SHOULD BE THE DJ. The DJ should be the last one to have to pay for music. I've had and currently have in my life relationships with Major Record Labels, Major Recording artists, Record Pool owners, radio station Music Directors and professional DJ's themselves. I know how the industry works...from EVERY single angle and aspect.

We, the DJ's, are the reason the artist can enjoy the million dollar lifestyle and luxury. We the DJ are the reason they exist, we the DJ are the reason the labels are making millions of dollars. If there was no one there to play their music, they wouldn't be in business.

To those DJ's who are in "Record Pools". The record labels PAY those DJ pools to put their artists music in them. Sometimes thousands and thousands of dollars. The Record pool then charges YOU the DJ a monthly fee for their "servicing you music" (not "selling it to you") and guess who gets to keep all the profit? The Record Pool. The Record Label or artist don't get a penny for that music. They PAID for you to get their music. So if you're in a record pool (which I am not knocking one bit)...you are still supporting the artist, but ur not in any way shape or form buying their music or supporting them financially.

Now, as a Recording Artist myself, I always have and always will give a professional DJ my music; my craft...my blood sweat and tears for FREE. Not only that, I will always hold high regard and show the utmost appreciation to any one of those DJ's who play my music. It should be the same with any other artist out there.

No offense to anyone out there on this forum...but if you are a "DJ" and believe you should still be paying for music..then I wouldn't consider you a "real DJ"...you don't know the ropes. Sorry if I offended anyone, not my intent. But if you know how the industry really works, there wouldn't be this debate.

YOU...the DJ...are the reason these artists are where they are...you don't HAVE to play their music. Remember that guys...

Once again, I DO NOT condone pirating music...but there's other ways to get free music in this "industry" legally...a real DJ would know that.
 
mixcds4u wrote :
i guess nobody here has ever contacted label reps? it is possible to get the latest music free, and legal and with the possibility of getting the artist to do drops.


Hey...we have an actual real DJ here who knows the deal :)
 
@ R.I.P. You are true about getting free music..

I used to be in a pool many months ago and i canceled it because i can get the same stuff free. From so many years Dj ying, Ive meet so many people in the music indusrty and i am able to get access to this. Another great thing is that, I work at the airport for a popular airline. I see so many Famous Djs and bands, Singers. They hook me up with there new cds etc
 
not that i download illegal music.... but i do believe that Dj's should have free access to music....
 
I have, and i do download music. I pay for it too!!!

1) Since i started collecting music ive bought A LOT LOT LOT of music and paid MANY artists AND record labels for their work. In this time cds and vinyls have scratched, broken, been stolen etc....so ive downloaded copies of stuff ive already paid for. I dont deem this a crime. Do you??

2) Personally i feel that we`re being ripped off at the moment. I want the artist to get my money but they dont. Artists are now starting to realise they dont need record labels. A LOT of the music ive bought the last 2 years is from small artists and bands, and ive bought their music from them at their gigs. The music is not available in shops and ALL the money goes to the artists. Untill this becomes more widespread practice i feel no guilt about refusing to pay the labels. Is this reasonable?? I think so. With technology now artists have a connection to the audience never before available and can operate independently - all you need is a studio. Then they can sell by themselves at cheaper prices and im happy knowing that the guy who thought, wrote, played and sweat to make it gets the money for it.

3) I`ve downloaded a lot of dance music by just typing in "progressive psy trance" into a search engiine. This came up with random collections of artists. After listening to what i found, and discarding the crapier tunes i have since gone on to buy many of the better tracks from sites such as beatport etc. I view this as a chance to preview music. If its what i like then i go and buy a higher quality version.

4) I know MANY artists who should be professional but arnt and i think this is a shame. However there are many artist - especially djs that are so far up their own "#$% they need a slap in the face. Music is life, music is freedom, music is the force that makes us one, and brings us together. Music should be shared. I think the idea that a dj should be getting paid hundreds of $$$ for a 1 hour set disgusting. Just play the music and lets enjoy it. Music has become a financial monster and people need to come back down to reality a bit.

I know artist need to eat etc, but seriosly....do they really need mansions, 6 cars cocain platters etc??

5) I have NO quarms playing pirated music in a set. As long as the quality is high who cares?? More often than not if i play a wicked track people will want to know who it is. More advertising for the artist. I would like to question the djs who refuse to use downloaded stuff - Have you ever been given, or received a promo cd/vinyl?? Why is this any different?? what makes you so special you can get free music but another, not so well connected person cant??

6) and finally......through beatport and other similar sites i can buy the individual tracks i like...and ive bought a LOT recently. Previously if id wanted thosae tracks id have to buy the entre albumn. paying 15 quid for 3 great tracks and 7 tracks of rubbish. For too long companies have pushed this crap onto us and we have no choice but to buy. now i only buy the tracks i want to buy and i feel like im getting a MUCH better deal this way. And this new option has come about as a result of the downloading.

There will always be people who abuse a system....shame, but downloading is not bad. And as a final thought...for the filmakers who commented on this. I ALWAYS download films. Why - because the majority of the films this days are nothing but trash. Im tired of going to a movie because the trailer showed all the best parts only to find the movie was crap beyond my dreams. Make less movies of higher quality and i wouldnt feel like im wasting my money. As it is holywood is wasting the money it receives. Until this situation is rectified and GOOD films come my way i wont pay for them . Sorry, but good luck...i look forward to paying for your movies in the future :-)
 
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