Fuskit
Ok, so I have a "partner" I guess you could say as far as DJ/KJ goes. I run the gear, do the DJ gigs solo, and they book the gigs and do the karaoke thing (with me on the gear cause talking to piss drunk people falling on my gear isn't my idea of fun). I was trying to show them how to, and the significance of beat matching and mixing. So I started off with two songs that were close (I'm Blue - Eifel 65 and Sugar - Flo Rida) which both have the same chorus part (cause heaven forbid a "new" artist not sample someone, but thats a different argument for another thread) and started them out of sync, hell I didn't even match the BPM. They respond with, " I don't hear anything." to which I responded, "you don't here the like 2345237 claps and hats and the 60 bass beats per millisecond?" so then I matched and mixed them.....still nothing. so I took two songs that were NOTHING alike (don't even remember what they were, but they were matchable but two different genres of music) and tried again.....still nothing. then with the mix....still nothing. then they had me go to the end of a song, and fade the next one in as it was fading out (similar to what you hear on the radio or a CD only without the brief pause) and they responded with, " See that sound fine to me." OMGWTFBBQ!! maybe its just me cause its a bit of a pet peeve of mine cause I have been around music my whole life. I taught myself how to play the piano by ear (can't read sheet music but give me a recording and maybe a day or 2 and I will most likely have it figured out) as well as learned the violin, viola, bass and cello in school. During my break from DJing I got into music production cause I love music so much and here I am with a "partner" that can't tell the difference between beats. Maybe I am looking too much into this and just over reacting alittle but I just wanted your guys opinions on the situation.
Now I understand that not everyone has the talent/ear to be a musician or do what we do, but I would figure that they could atleast tell the difference in beats, tempos, etc. Anyway, open discussion, let me know if you think I am over reacting or not.
Michael
Now I understand that not everyone has the talent/ear to be a musician or do what we do, but I would figure that they could atleast tell the difference in beats, tempos, etc. Anyway, open discussion, let me know if you think I am over reacting or not.
Michael
geposted Mon 22 Jun 09 @ 11:14 pm
djlex
Oh well, think like this:
-most of the people are listening music of cds and radio
-with so many mashups and remixes they do not know what is right or is a new version of the song
-as long as they can recognize the chorus sounds fine to them
-beatmatcing, beat juggle or scratching is an art most appreciated by other djs and initiated people
One time before my set I mingled in to the club's crowd and we had a bad axx scratching dj performing and I heard comments like "what is that noise over the music?" other time when I was mixing I got a puzzled girl comming over to the boot and she asked me "why do you cut the songs, can play that whole song again? " - wtf?
Just ignore the novice and do your thing
-most of the people are listening music of cds and radio
-with so many mashups and remixes they do not know what is right or is a new version of the song
-as long as they can recognize the chorus sounds fine to them
-beatmatcing, beat juggle or scratching is an art most appreciated by other djs and initiated people
One time before my set I mingled in to the club's crowd and we had a bad axx scratching dj performing and I heard comments like "what is that noise over the music?" other time when I was mixing I got a puzzled girl comming over to the boot and she asked me "why do you cut the songs, can play that whole song again? " - wtf?
Just ignore the novice and do your thing
geposted Mon 22 Jun 09 @ 11:37 pm
dj-e-lectric
Don't beat yourself up...most all Djs eventually realize that the crowd doesn't care.
I have ALWAYS believed (and confired through years of Djing) and taught all my Djs that the only people to any significant % who give a rats behind about beat matching are Djs, Dj wanna be's and the very few true affianados of clubbing music. Most people (and unfortunatley that includes a very high percent of todays djs) could not hear a train wreck beat mix from a perfect 4 song sample overlay. There are several reasons for this:
1) They don't care, they just want to hear the songs they like.
2) They don't have the "ear" for it because they don't have the training....just as I can't tell a c# from a pinch in the ass because I was never trained in music (when mixing I can't tell you what the keys are but I can "hear" when keys don't match, but that is because I am trained in listening)
3) So much of todays music (especially rap and mashups) is technically incorrect (i.e. not in key, not on beat, scratching that doesn't fit the song, follow the beat or the rhythm or mis-matched rhythms and melodies, not following a true 4/4 meter and too many samples and effects layered upon one another because the producer can).
4) What is correct technically and what people like (or have been indoctorinated to like) do not always coincide. Technically correct will always be technically correct, but there is never accounting for taste....if so biz markie wouldn't be ressurected on that stupid drunk driving commercial)
Just remember the #1 rule of Djing has always and will always be to play the appropriate song at the appropriate time to get maximum value from it....then work on your "skillz" to amuse yourself and your friends because nothing else really matters if the music is right!
I know this posting is going to open a whole can of worms from all the turntablists out there about how full of shi* I am because they scratch great and they know how to use the effects and sample properly and their crowd loves their mixing...if you are one of those exceptions don't bother to respond because I am not talking about you then, you are great.....if you have a guilty conscience or are over compensating for an inferiority complex then by all means keep thinking anybody on the dancefloor cares about your noisy scratching and post your defense with all your bravado...........Just remember after 27 years of being there and doing that I can tell you it really truly doesn't matter in 90% of all of our jobs and you know deep down inside we do it simply because we love it and in the end that's good enough for us!
I have ALWAYS believed (and confired through years of Djing) and taught all my Djs that the only people to any significant % who give a rats behind about beat matching are Djs, Dj wanna be's and the very few true affianados of clubbing music. Most people (and unfortunatley that includes a very high percent of todays djs) could not hear a train wreck beat mix from a perfect 4 song sample overlay. There are several reasons for this:
1) They don't care, they just want to hear the songs they like.
2) They don't have the "ear" for it because they don't have the training....just as I can't tell a c# from a pinch in the ass because I was never trained in music (when mixing I can't tell you what the keys are but I can "hear" when keys don't match, but that is because I am trained in listening)
3) So much of todays music (especially rap and mashups) is technically incorrect (i.e. not in key, not on beat, scratching that doesn't fit the song, follow the beat or the rhythm or mis-matched rhythms and melodies, not following a true 4/4 meter and too many samples and effects layered upon one another because the producer can).
4) What is correct technically and what people like (or have been indoctorinated to like) do not always coincide. Technically correct will always be technically correct, but there is never accounting for taste....if so biz markie wouldn't be ressurected on that stupid drunk driving commercial)
Just remember the #1 rule of Djing has always and will always be to play the appropriate song at the appropriate time to get maximum value from it....then work on your "skillz" to amuse yourself and your friends because nothing else really matters if the music is right!
I know this posting is going to open a whole can of worms from all the turntablists out there about how full of shi* I am because they scratch great and they know how to use the effects and sample properly and their crowd loves their mixing...if you are one of those exceptions don't bother to respond because I am not talking about you then, you are great.....if you have a guilty conscience or are over compensating for an inferiority complex then by all means keep thinking anybody on the dancefloor cares about your noisy scratching and post your defense with all your bravado...........Just remember after 27 years of being there and doing that I can tell you it really truly doesn't matter in 90% of all of our jobs and you know deep down inside we do it simply because we love it and in the end that's good enough for us!
geposted Tue 23 Jun 09 @ 12:12 am
leighfromnz
If you are beatmatching right and blending well choosing the right tunes, they dont get a chance to leave the floor. They dont have to understand what beatmatching is, they just know 'that dj rocked - kept us on the floor all night'. Same as most people have no appreciation for a lightshow, but subconsciously they appreciate something kept them moving and complimented the music's highs and lows. They just have to feel not understand, and I dont think you're partner's feeling it ;) Nothing to worry about though - its not unusual - what else they got going for them?
geposted Tue 23 Jun 09 @ 1:40 am
Fuskit
If you are beatmatching right and blending well choosing the right tunes, they dont get a chance to leave the floor. They dont have to understand what beatmatching is, they just know 'that dj rocked - kept us on the floor all night'. Same as most people have no appreciation for a lightshow, but subconsciously they appreciate something kept them moving and complimented the music's highs and lows. They just have to feel not understand, and I dont think you're partner's feeling it ;) Nothing to worry about though - its not unusual - what else they got going for them? - musicalcheers (its not letting me quote for some reason)
I understand what you're saying (as well as everyone else) but, maybe its just me, I think that if you are going to be in the "music industry" rather it be DJing, producing, running a karaoke show, in a band, whatever, you should be able to atleast notice a tempo change or the fact that you have two songs playing with ONE clap not 60.
I realized back before I stopped DJing, the only thing the crowd really cares about is the music itself, not if its mixed right or anything. that was another reason I got into producing after I stopped. I guarantee I could just pop a CD in my dual CD unit (Gemini CDX-02G) and set it to "continue" (where there is no break in the songs its just straight into the next one) and no one would even notice. However I can't bring myself to do that. I like being able to take a techno/trance/house song that I MADE MYSELF and putting a hip-hop song on top of it and doing an on the fly remix or something. I like knowing when to fit an effect in so it doesn't make it sound like a skipping CD or livestock getting raped. I like the sound of a beat matched intro and an "outro" (which most songs now have the longest damn, chorus repeating outros in history) over each other as the second song comes in. It makes it a more fluid, non stop "go out and have fun time" than if I just sat my ass up there and played CD's and let them run on their own. there have been times I had to keep myself from dancing while working just cause I was getting so into my own mix, lol.
I don't know, maybe its just me, but the main reason it bothers me about them is the fact that THEY ARE TECHNICALLY MY "BUSINESS PARTNER". Other than the fact that they are beat deaf and can play to a drunk ass karaoke crowd to get them to tip like a mo-fo and get up there and sing, the only thing they have going for them is they aren't a half bad singer themselves. I actually have a song that I made like 2 or 3 years ago I have been working on lyrics for in my spare time that I am going to get them to sing on if I ever finish it, lol.
I don't know, maybe its cause I haven't had hardly any sleep lately cause I still have that popping sound that I am going to try some things tomorrow and see if I can fix, and between the lack of sleep, aggravation at this noise, and then the fact that they are in this music based business with me and couldn't hear what I was hearing I guess that just send me over the edge for a min. but I say hell lets keep this thread rolling. Never know, a new guy might come along and actually read it and take what is said here to heart and not be one of the "wannabe's". Who knows. Hell share some experiences too if you have any (like lex did). I think I am going to go get some sleep and see if I still feel as upset about this tomorrow, lol.
I understand what you're saying (as well as everyone else) but, maybe its just me, I think that if you are going to be in the "music industry" rather it be DJing, producing, running a karaoke show, in a band, whatever, you should be able to atleast notice a tempo change or the fact that you have two songs playing with ONE clap not 60.
I realized back before I stopped DJing, the only thing the crowd really cares about is the music itself, not if its mixed right or anything. that was another reason I got into producing after I stopped. I guarantee I could just pop a CD in my dual CD unit (Gemini CDX-02G) and set it to "continue" (where there is no break in the songs its just straight into the next one) and no one would even notice. However I can't bring myself to do that. I like being able to take a techno/trance/house song that I MADE MYSELF and putting a hip-hop song on top of it and doing an on the fly remix or something. I like knowing when to fit an effect in so it doesn't make it sound like a skipping CD or livestock getting raped. I like the sound of a beat matched intro and an "outro" (which most songs now have the longest damn, chorus repeating outros in history) over each other as the second song comes in. It makes it a more fluid, non stop "go out and have fun time" than if I just sat my ass up there and played CD's and let them run on their own. there have been times I had to keep myself from dancing while working just cause I was getting so into my own mix, lol.
I don't know, maybe its just me, but the main reason it bothers me about them is the fact that THEY ARE TECHNICALLY MY "BUSINESS PARTNER". Other than the fact that they are beat deaf and can play to a drunk ass karaoke crowd to get them to tip like a mo-fo and get up there and sing, the only thing they have going for them is they aren't a half bad singer themselves. I actually have a song that I made like 2 or 3 years ago I have been working on lyrics for in my spare time that I am going to get them to sing on if I ever finish it, lol.
I don't know, maybe its cause I haven't had hardly any sleep lately cause I still have that popping sound that I am going to try some things tomorrow and see if I can fix, and between the lack of sleep, aggravation at this noise, and then the fact that they are in this music based business with me and couldn't hear what I was hearing I guess that just send me over the edge for a min. but I say hell lets keep this thread rolling. Never know, a new guy might come along and actually read it and take what is said here to heart and not be one of the "wannabe's". Who knows. Hell share some experiences too if you have any (like lex did). I think I am going to go get some sleep and see if I still feel as upset about this tomorrow, lol.
geposted Tue 23 Jun 09 @ 2:25 am
dj-e-lectric
maybe instead of trying to teach them to beat match teach them proper music formatting and programming first....it will take longer but in the end you will have much more knowlegeable and competent partners.
You could also target your marketing towards gigs that would highlight their strength at "party starters" and personalities. A good personality MC type coupled with a good Dj can really get the crowd going as finding the two together in the same person at equally top notch is rare.
You could also target your marketing towards gigs that would highlight their strength at "party starters" and personalities. A good personality MC type coupled with a good Dj can really get the crowd going as finding the two together in the same person at equally top notch is rare.
geposted Tue 23 Jun 09 @ 7:31 am
leighfromnz
Oh business partner - yeah thats a bit different. Can he keep beat - must have some understanding of intros to sing. Maybe relate it to something he sings regularly with a standard intro. Show how many beats it counts before it starts the singing part, then show at the end before it finishes. Then maybe mix the same song so it starts singing again at the intro when the intro ends. Then with another song, and so on. Use something he knows. But yeah he has to be interested in learning and thats probably the most important part.
geposted Tue 23 Jun 09 @ 3:14 pm
Fuskit
I might try that with the using something they know. I am not as irritated about it as I was, but it does still bother me. I mean they obviously can keep a beat cause they sing and do a pretty damn good job of it (even in karaoke which I find to be kinda difficult).
and e-lectric, I might try that as well (both the formatting and programming as well as the gig idea). cause they can work a crowd very well. I usually just stay focused on what I am doing and keeping the crowd moving/interested in the music and on the dance floor. I can work a crowd too (kinda mandatory when my "partner" isn't there when I am soloing a DJ gig) but not as good as them. I have no idea how they do it, lol. I do the same things, with the same enthusiasm and they get more response, I don't know.
I just wish I could teach them how to not be beat deaf, lol. I mean I am sure its possible, but not easy enough for me to actually want to do it (I have my lazy moments, what can I say). does anyone else have any experiences with situations like this (people being beat/tone deaf, or not really understanding the job we do)?
in the meantime I am going to try and work with them alittle bit and see what I can do. I get alot of practice time here lately cause I am trying to resolve that annoying popping noise so I will see what I can do while I am working on that. Thanks for the input guys.
Michael
and e-lectric, I might try that as well (both the formatting and programming as well as the gig idea). cause they can work a crowd very well. I usually just stay focused on what I am doing and keeping the crowd moving/interested in the music and on the dance floor. I can work a crowd too (kinda mandatory when my "partner" isn't there when I am soloing a DJ gig) but not as good as them. I have no idea how they do it, lol. I do the same things, with the same enthusiasm and they get more response, I don't know.
I just wish I could teach them how to not be beat deaf, lol. I mean I am sure its possible, but not easy enough for me to actually want to do it (I have my lazy moments, what can I say). does anyone else have any experiences with situations like this (people being beat/tone deaf, or not really understanding the job we do)?
in the meantime I am going to try and work with them alittle bit and see what I can do. I get alot of practice time here lately cause I am trying to resolve that annoying popping noise so I will see what I can do while I am working on that. Thanks for the input guys.
Michael
geposted Wed 24 Jun 09 @ 1:41 am
djpanda818
got to give up for dj electric 110% true...99.9% of the people care less for scratch, mashups or remixes....they want to hear what they listen to on the radio....exactly how it is...they also dont care about beatmatching though they do notice when you mess up on it...but they will keep dancing...if you simply play whats on the radio with no scratching, mashup or remixes...to there eyes and ears you are a great dj....right song for the right crowed thats the success key.....i know most of us here can relate to this....how many time have you been playing uptempo club beats..127 bpm when someone comes and aks you to play a 90 bpm song...of course this is with the person not knowing the difference between beats on each song played. thats why i choose the music i play very carefully each song has to have some kind of upbeat lyrics or melody...i noticed in allot of music now days they just want to put a 127 bpm beat on anything even though it sounds so sad....leave the romance and depressed songs where they belong dont try and bring them to the clubs....pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
geposted Fri 31 Jul 09 @ 4:01 am