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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: ........Role of External Mixers in a Setup.......

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Need a bit of advise trying to understand a concept from u pro djs out there.......I realize that VDJ on a lappy with a midi controller either with

onboad sound card or external card can just run RCA, XLRs, etc straight to the powered speakers and sound ok.....But, is it a better or "more

professional" setup to run the lappy to the Midi controller to soundcard (if one is external) then go into a separate Mixer to adjust levels, etc.

before going to the club's powered speakers?....I guess I'm asking which setup u guys use in smaller parties or large gigs?... What do the pros

use?.... What would I find in a club environment, etc?.... It seems to me that it wouldn't be the norm to walk into a nightclub and go straight

from a soundcard into the club system, right?............Is it different depending upon the size of the gig and the level of professionalism

needed?..........thanks guys!!
 
geposted Fri 21 Oct 11 @ 5:33 am
I always use an external controller and mixer when DJing from a computer.

Maybe that's because I started DJing when there were no domestic computers, and you had to have the real hardware.

Or maybe it's because the real hardware gives you more control (trying turning two knobs at once with a mouse) and shows your audience that you really are DJing and not checking your emails online!

I'd say that if you're DJing anywhere in front of a paying audience, you should be using the proper hardware....
 
thanks Groove....My question wasn't really should I dj with only a PC and mouse, but if it is common practice to use a Laptop, (w/ or w/out) an

internal soundcard going straight to powered speakers and that's it....Or is it more common to put a separate ADDITIONAL mixer in between

the controller or (soundcard) and the main speakers....In addition to the Midi controller that mixes YOUR output.....The additional mixer would

regulate the main levels going out onto the BIG club system......Most club gigs u are running your equipment into the clubs main mixer before

the speakers correct?....not just plugging your laptop or soundcard into the powered club speakers......Thats my question...how often is the

second external mixer employed? Only for the biggest of club gigs? I'm strictly talking about using a software like VDJ and a Midi controller.

Obviously if turntable are being used there will already be an external mixer......It just seems like only using a MIDI controller with 3 eq knobs

going straight into a clubs speakers would require a little extra tweaking to sound good (tweaking via a clubs main mixer THEN to the club's

speakers)
 
I use a 4 channel mixer in between my I/O and Amp....more control, better Microphone control in a seperate channel (the IO input is garbage for Mic's)
 
Although my midi controller is a mixer too, I still use an ext mixer as well for more control, couldn't not use it.

Advantages are endless, mic channels, additional channels, can set a master level that acts a limiter etc etc.

Try get a 1u mixer.
 
jusblaze246 wrote :
if it is common practice to use a Laptop, (w/ or w/out) an internal soundcard going straight to powered speakers and that's it....Or is it more common to put a separate ADDITIONAL mixer in between


You mean use two mixers? I never would. No need.

Do you ever feel the need to drive a car with two engines? No, because one does the job!

I'd never connect my computer direct to powered speakers, and I'd never feed one mixer into a second.

Use the right tools for the job.

If you're playing somewhere that has a mixer already installed, then you don't need another. Just plug straight into theirs.

It's not so easy to answer the "is it common?" question though. Some people would be quite happy to chain mixers together - but the results speak for themselves.

There was a recent thread on here where a DJ was feeding a high level mixer output into the mic input of a PA desk, finding he was getting distortion (no surprise there then) and posting on here asking why!!!!!
 
NEVER EVER connect a "software" or "MIDI" mixer directly on a PA system... There are 100's of things that can go wrong...

Never connect your soundcard (or your controller's soundcard) main output directly to your Amps or powered speakers. Use a mixer or any other decent piece of hardware equipment that can control the sound output that gets send on your amps between the soundcard/controller and the amps.

In other words, for most controllers you have to use an external mixer in order to be able to control safely the "master" volume output that's send on your soundsystem.
The only exception on this rule are controllers that work as a real hardware mixer, and they are set to do so!!!
For instance you can use a DENON MC-6000 and hook it directly on your amps if it works as a hardware mixer ("INT MIX") but you can't hook it up directly if you use it as a MIDI mixer ("PC MIX")

A few reasons why you shouldn't never hook a soundcard directly on a PA system:
1) You can't see if the sound output get's distorted. In this case you can damage your speakers even if your soundsystem plays on low volume.
Example: You have set your amps to 50% of their power capacity. (By it's volume attenuators). You are playing with your "Master Volume" at 60% and everything is fine! Later down the road, you need more "volume" You increase your "Master Volume" to 100%. For most soundcards this means that they output way more louder than the desired 0db Everything plays well, but the sound distorts in the INPUT of your amplifier. Your amplifier now sends distorted sound on your speakers, even if it's palying in the 50% of its power capacity. Because of this, your speaker's magnets and coils start to heat up. After some time the speakers can get damaged!!!
PS: This is the same reason why you should NEVER hook a CDJ directly on an amp. It's 100% sure that it will distort the input of the amp!
2) You can't control what happens if for any reason the soundcard gets disconnected from the PC, or the PC shuts down, the software or the PC crashes, e.t.c...
Another example: You're playing with your favorite software directly from the soundcard to your amplifiers. You have set the "Master volume" to 40% and your system is playing very loud! This "volume" is the software's controlled volume. Your soundcard (especially the ASIO soundcards) is still capable to output 100% of it's volume if another application tell it to do so... What happens if the soundcard gets accidentally disconnected from the PC ? No-one can tell for sure. There's always a chance that the soundcard sends out a "spike" (an instant electrical current signal that equals it's maximum volume) on your amps...
What happens if a software failure (or OS failure) "maximizes" (even temporarily) your soundcard's output ?

E.T.C....

I could spend hours analyzing this stuff but unfortunately English is not my mother language and I can't express what I want the right way... :(
 
i always use pre amp mixer to control the output sound levels and eq before going to the pa system. plus i like to have my cdj for scratching as im not too fussed on scratching with my mixtrack. the cdj is so much more sturdy. that and my external mixer can take 1,000,000 times more abuse than my mixtrack ever could.

the mixtracks on board soundcard also sounds washed out and flat so id rather bypass that by going from laptop to mixer. for a criper clearer sound .
 
The Denon MC6000, Citronic MP-X10 and other similar are under spec'd and simply running them on their own in a lot of instances would mean you wouldn't be able to get the job done.

PS,

You run the second mixer from a channel, not daisy chaining the master outputs lol.
 
Here's a typical club set up.

IN the Booth, you will likely have an XLR input for main. There are still clubs that have TRS. If the club is not cheap you will have TRS input for booth monitors. Otherwise you may have to bring your own such as the club I have a residency at now and at a small bar I play at.

From there, it typically routes through some sort of zone controller. If the sound guy at the club is smart, he will have limiters. Then to the amps.


Most larger clubs will have CDJ's or turntables already installed. All you would need is to bring your CD's or control CD/Vinyl. Serato is big in the US so more than likely you will already have a Serato SL2-3-4 box to plug in you laptop to. VDJ can run on this.

Some smaller clubs they would want you to bring your own gear. As long as you can plug into XLR which is pretty standard and/or TRS. You should be good to go.

Never, ever, ever, just DJ with a laptop. Your laptop crashes in the mid set and you are sunk. YOu will have a ****load of people p****d and an owner/club manager on your a**. Always, always bring back up thumb drive or CD. This is why club DJ's like to bring a full gear. This happened to me last New Years Eve. Traktor froze on me. So I switched my CDJ from MIDI mode to CD mode. Plugged in my back up CD and played on. Overall I have less than .45 second dead air while I rebooted my laptop.

NEVER EVER DJ AT A CLUB WITH JUST A LAPTOP

[Moderated] Foul language removed - Please keep posts clean. People of all ages can read the content on the forums
 
Charlie Wilson wrote :
The Denon MC6000, Citronic MP-X10 and other similar are under spec'd and simply running them on their own in a lot of instances would mean you wouldn't be able to get the job done.

I don't know about others but the MC6000 (working as a hardware mixer - INT MIX) is no way under spec'd and it's powerfull enough to even overdrive your system...
 
Not talking about power output, talking about spec, options and control.
 
I'm not trying to start a debate, nor to get out of topic, but what more do you need from a mixer that MC6000 doesn't have it? Because besides on-board effects it has everything else a dedicated hardware mixer has...
 
In my 2 setups I use an external mixer because I like things a little bit on the old fashioned way.



I use the HC4500 and as a backup the D4500. This way I don't have to exit the midi mode on the HC4500 and if the laptop crashes or I run into a probllem I can hit play on the D4500 that has a couple of pre mixed sets. If I can't return to using the laptop I just transition to my backup CD's.

The other setup is the same except it uses a Rane MP44.
 


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