VDJ Ron
+1 Beatbreaker.
I'll add to your donation.
I'll add to your donation.
geposted Tue 24 Nov 15 @ 5:00 pm
groovindj
I guess if Atomix continue to be obstinate, then one possible solution may be to have a util program that adds the MIK results directly into the VDJ database XML (once the files have been scanned in VDJ of course).
There are a few people here who could write such a thing. It's probably already doable with any existing s/w that can read and write XML databases.
There are a few people here who could write such a thing. It's probably already doable with any existing s/w that can read and write XML databases.
geposted Tue 24 Nov 15 @ 5:57 pm
VDJ Ron
In my case it would be Keyfinder..all the way, written to the VDJ database.
Hm Microsoft Office or whatever ?
Hm Microsoft Office or whatever ?
geposted Tue 24 Nov 15 @ 6:10 pm
mp3jrick
Guys, this was discussed, debated, sliced and diced during early beta testing in 8, same with cbg drift.
The short of it was I was talking to myself for the most part, but below you can see the errors side by side.
See, you either get what you want or you get the software that will, same with video djing and video effects.
MIK writes to the comment field adding to the front or overwriting comments, been using it for years now
It only needs to see the internet when you scan files, big deal, your online downloading usually anyway.
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/375476_2503895310748_38011979_n.jpg?oh=d5bafddaed13b63fe24f85ef952bf586&oe=56E0FAE9
The short of it was I was talking to myself for the most part, but below you can see the errors side by side.
See, you either get what you want or you get the software that will, same with video djing and video effects.
MIK writes to the comment field adding to the front or overwriting comments, been using it for years now
It only needs to see the internet when you scan files, big deal, your online downloading usually anyway.
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/375476_2503895310748_38011979_n.jpg?oh=d5bafddaed13b63fe24f85ef952bf586&oe=56E0FAE9
geposted Tue 24 Nov 15 @ 8:29 pm
VDJ Ron
So why not use the free Keyfinder for the moment?
It's almost as good as MIK.
From my experience the dominance of MIK will be short lived.
Once propriety chess engines ruled the roost, now the open source free-ware chess engines dominate.
The combined efforts of humanity normally win.
I suspect Atomix have a business model which might survive, but they need to embrace the future.
It's almost as good as MIK.
From my experience the dominance of MIK will be short lived.
Once propriety chess engines ruled the roost, now the open source free-ware chess engines dominate.
The combined efforts of humanity normally win.
I suspect Atomix have a business model which might survive, but they need to embrace the future.
geposted Tue 24 Nov 15 @ 8:54 pm
VDJ Ron
The xml for DJ dads swap decks is a bit big !
I found the key entries for the 4 decks.
Presumably I make two changes on each deck KEY to COMMENT, and pkey, and pcamelot to just pcomment ?
Anyway I try that tomorrow.
I found the key entries for the 4 decks.
Presumably I make two changes on each deck KEY to COMMENT, and pkey, and pcamelot to just pcomment ?
Anyway I try that tomorrow.
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 12:51 am
VDJ Ron
I may be coming out with a load of bullshit.
VDJ 8 has done better than Keyfinder when analyzing the Beatles Album Please Please Me. VDJ 8 got 10/14 plus perhaps another 2 due to the sharp flat thing. That's an excellent VDJ 8 performance !
All I can do is keep on comparing data.
I'm a bit tired now.
VDJ 8 may not be that bad.
I wish I never started this now..after loads of work I may end up keeping VDJ8 key analysis.
VDJ 8 has done better than Keyfinder when analyzing the Beatles Album Please Please Me. VDJ 8 got 10/14 plus perhaps another 2 due to the sharp flat thing. That's an excellent VDJ 8 performance !
All I can do is keep on comparing data.
I'm a bit tired now.
VDJ 8 may not be that bad.
I wish I never started this now..after loads of work I may end up keeping VDJ8 key analysis.
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 1:37 am
VDJ Ron
I don't even know how to use the two VDJ 8 key detection modes.
I assume one mode is for electronic dance, whilst the other is for pop.
VDJ 8 could be the best key detection software by a mile used correctly.
I just don't know.
We all now have the data to find out, courtesy of the Keyfinder website, but the required work is onerous.
Keyfinder has also provided a 1000 song reference database.
AMAHM's opinion might be the best.
If we seek excellence then we should use the modes on offer from Atomix.
We then might find we already have the best software.
Those who are less than dedicated can just mix in major keys, using the minor keys for deep mood changes. VDJ 8 is good with major keys.
I need to know more about VDJ8's twin mode key analysis.
I feel like I'm being stupid.
My only excuse is that I'm expressing my thoughts as they arrive.
After a little reading..
In VDJ 8 setup audio options we have two key detection modes 1) broad range and 2) electronic.
Broad range is the default.
Hence VDJ 8 was spot on with my Beatles album Please Please Me, however when being used in the DJTechtools independent survey it would not have worked well since they were likely to be using electronic dance music.
There seems to be an awful lot of people who are quick to put Atomix down.
I assume one mode is for electronic dance, whilst the other is for pop.
VDJ 8 could be the best key detection software by a mile used correctly.
I just don't know.
We all now have the data to find out, courtesy of the Keyfinder website, but the required work is onerous.
Keyfinder has also provided a 1000 song reference database.
AMAHM's opinion might be the best.
If we seek excellence then we should use the modes on offer from Atomix.
We then might find we already have the best software.
Those who are less than dedicated can just mix in major keys, using the minor keys for deep mood changes. VDJ 8 is good with major keys.
I need to know more about VDJ8's twin mode key analysis.
I feel like I'm being stupid.
My only excuse is that I'm expressing my thoughts as they arrive.
After a little reading..
In VDJ 8 setup audio options we have two key detection modes 1) broad range and 2) electronic.
Broad range is the default.
Hence VDJ 8 was spot on with my Beatles album Please Please Me, however when being used in the DJTechtools independent survey it would not have worked well since they were likely to be using electronic dance music.
There seems to be an awful lot of people who are quick to put Atomix down.
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 1:36 pm
VDJ Ron
I've just looked at 100 tracks from Beatport.. over 50% are in a minor key.
VDJ 8 would not do well analyzing the Beatport top 100 using its broad range key mode.
How well will it do in electronic mode?
I've changed mode to electronic, and am reanalyzing these tracks, but I don't have a reference database. The best I can do is look on the Internet, or compare the results with Keyfinder.
WOW!
Every key now analyzed by VDJ 8 (in the electronic mode) is now in a minor key !!!!!!!
It looks a little like VDJ7 analysis.
I'll compare this to Keyfinder.
I only look at the first 10 Beatport songs, VDJ8 agreeded with Keyfinder on 6 keys. It is likely those keys are correct..6/10 = 60% not bad.
We do not know the true result, but I assume 60% is the minimum accuracy for both programs.
Keyfinder has found a few major keys, whilst VDJ 8 none!
I'd guess that the accuracy of both programs would be between 60-80%.
Due to the simple mode option in VDJ8 I think it will do better than Keyfinder.
VDJ 8 was terrific in broad range mode analyzing of my Beatles album.
It should be noted that the geniuses out there can alter the algorithm options in Keyfinder, but beginners are warned to keep away.
That means you can "tune it for electronic dance" if you're clever enough!
A +1 for Keyfinder.
MY CONCLUSION IS THAT VDJ8 KEY ANALYSIS USING THE APPROPRIATE MODE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME, I'M WASTING NO MORE TIME.
(Hm I have learned a lot!)
VDJ 8 would not do well analyzing the Beatport top 100 using its broad range key mode.
How well will it do in electronic mode?
I've changed mode to electronic, and am reanalyzing these tracks, but I don't have a reference database. The best I can do is look on the Internet, or compare the results with Keyfinder.
WOW!
Every key now analyzed by VDJ 8 (in the electronic mode) is now in a minor key !!!!!!!
It looks a little like VDJ7 analysis.
I'll compare this to Keyfinder.
I only look at the first 10 Beatport songs, VDJ8 agreeded with Keyfinder on 6 keys. It is likely those keys are correct..6/10 = 60% not bad.
We do not know the true result, but I assume 60% is the minimum accuracy for both programs.
Keyfinder has found a few major keys, whilst VDJ 8 none!
I'd guess that the accuracy of both programs would be between 60-80%.
Due to the simple mode option in VDJ8 I think it will do better than Keyfinder.
VDJ 8 was terrific in broad range mode analyzing of my Beatles album.
It should be noted that the geniuses out there can alter the algorithm options in Keyfinder, but beginners are warned to keep away.
That means you can "tune it for electronic dance" if you're clever enough!
A +1 for Keyfinder.
MY CONCLUSION IS THAT VDJ8 KEY ANALYSIS USING THE APPROPRIATE MODE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME, I'M WASTING NO MORE TIME.
(Hm I have learned a lot!)
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 4:36 pm
VDJ Ron
A thought..I wonder if VDJ 8 uses a version of Keyfinder custom tuned to two options?
Another thought, one of the 10 Beatport songs had a key of 4A in Keyfinder, and 11A in VDJ8.
4A is harmonically compatible with 11A.
More correlation.
Remember the Camelot wheel, those keys next to a key are harmonically compatible. But also going around the Camelot wheel by 7 finds another compatible key. I may as well add that a jump of +2 gives an energy boost to your music. Handy !
Another thought, one of the 10 Beatport songs had a key of 4A in Keyfinder, and 11A in VDJ8.
4A is harmonically compatible with 11A.
More correlation.
Remember the Camelot wheel, those keys next to a key are harmonically compatible. But also going around the Camelot wheel by 7 finds another compatible key. I may as well add that a jump of +2 gives an energy boost to your music. Handy !
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 5:38 pm
A Man and His Music
Ron, I'm going to ask you to take a time out. Get your thoughts together, and stop editing you post. I will also remind you about our three post rule. I have tried to be reasonable, and you have been reminded several times, but you continue to abuse this forum. This constant posting is unnecessary.
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 6:53 pm
VDJ Ron
OK
I believe harmonic mixing is important, and there is very little information available to VDJ8 DJ's other than buy MIK.
I'll tidy my comments up and put them on my blog.
I did not know where I was going over the key detection issue in VDJ 8.
I'm a little surprised, VDJ8 is better at key detection than I thought.
I find your comment about editing posts strange, there is only a short period of time in which errors can be corrected, and I believe you control that?
I believe harmonic mixing is important, and there is very little information available to VDJ8 DJ's other than buy MIK.
I'll tidy my comments up and put them on my blog.
I did not know where I was going over the key detection issue in VDJ 8.
I'm a little surprised, VDJ8 is better at key detection than I thought.
I find your comment about editing posts strange, there is only a short period of time in which errors can be corrected, and I believe you control that?
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 7:30 pm
Mobile Zombie
I have no issues with Ron's multiple posting. I find it useful for me to learn more about it, since I am in the same process of finding a sustainable solution for harmonic analysis.
Just bought Mixed in key and will try that out.
Just bought Mixed in key and will try that out.
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 8:01 pm
wickedmix
not to upset anyone but when you have a topic set to notify of new posts and you get many emails for spelling edits it is a bit annoying at times.
also when the posts are directed at ones own thoughts and not to someone or the entire community i think a blog is a better place :-)
just my opinion take it for what its worth :-)
also when the posts are directed at ones own thoughts and not to someone or the entire community i think a blog is a better place :-)
just my opinion take it for what its worth :-)
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 8:07 pm
VDJ Ron
wickedmix I was putting everything I knew about keys into this thread for every DJ in our world.
You could of course cast doubt on its value. That is another matter. I was trying my best to help everyone.
Some of the more basic stuff related to the Camelot wheel is mostly for the new DJ's.
There is so little information about the use of keys, and VDJ8. I looked in the manual and found nothing.
About a year, and a half ago DJDad killed a critical thread on VDJ8 keys stone dead. All he did was mention the "electronic" key option. No more comments! That thread may be the sum total of this forums knowledge about VDJ8 key analysis. Perhaps its a little secret?
I doubt those on the DJTechTools website know, or want to know.
From my point of view I can still get this information out via Google, and it will strengthen my websites. I'm actually putting myself at a disadvantage by making these multiple posts. However it has gathered my thoughts, I must blog this key issue, it's important.
You could of course cast doubt on its value. That is another matter. I was trying my best to help everyone.
Some of the more basic stuff related to the Camelot wheel is mostly for the new DJ's.
There is so little information about the use of keys, and VDJ8. I looked in the manual and found nothing.
About a year, and a half ago DJDad killed a critical thread on VDJ8 keys stone dead. All he did was mention the "electronic" key option. No more comments! That thread may be the sum total of this forums knowledge about VDJ8 key analysis. Perhaps its a little secret?
I doubt those on the DJTechTools website know, or want to know.
From my point of view I can still get this information out via Google, and it will strengthen my websites. I'm actually putting myself at a disadvantage by making these multiple posts. However it has gathered my thoughts, I must blog this key issue, it's important.
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 8:54 pm
VDJ Ron
One more point, if I make an mistake then I'm rapidly corrected by people like AMAHM, Kradcliffe, Groovin, and Beatbreaker.
They are collectively excellent proof readers.
They are collectively excellent proof readers.
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 9:18 pm
PachN
Ron, if you want to educate some younger folks, there is a mixing lessons forum for that.
Just start a new thread and post all of your Informations there.
I'm sure it will be appreciated.
And who knows, maybe you will become the “silent ellaskin“.
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/15/Mix_lessons.html
Just start a new thread and post all of your Informations there.
I'm sure it will be appreciated.
And who knows, maybe you will become the “silent ellaskin“.
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/15/Mix_lessons.html
geposted Wed 25 Nov 15 @ 9:31 pm
DeadMan3000
Dragging up an old topic since I am having issues with VDJ8. Why is E-Flat minor being shown as D#m in VDJ It does not correspond to the Camelot wheel and from reading using D#m to show E-Flat minor is not common usage within music notation circles. Why are Atomix being so awkward on this?
geposted Sat 30 Apr 16 @ 3:35 pm
Sound&Silence
+1, even being a musician, this confuses me too
geposted Wed 04 May 16 @ 9:50 am
bagpuss
The real solution would be to have VDJ offer key detection at a level that's the same or better than MIK's. But anytime you ask for anything here there's an army of fanboys that come running to defend mediocrity, because heaven forbid VDJ should step above and beyond the prevailing market leaders...
Heaven forbid you should ask for anything when you haven't paid in anything for a long time, and heaven forbid you should be in favor of paid upgrades or paid content packs (such as those offered by market leaders).
You really can't win against the fanboys, no matter how constructive or creative your requests are. Anyone who rocks the boat is treated as the enemy around here. Mic drop.
Heaven forbid you should ask for anything when you haven't paid in anything for a long time, and heaven forbid you should be in favor of paid upgrades or paid content packs (such as those offered by market leaders).
You really can't win against the fanboys, no matter how constructive or creative your requests are. Anyone who rocks the boat is treated as the enemy around here. Mic drop.
geposted Wed 04 May 16 @ 1:35 pm
