PCGumshoe
Graphedit... I'll try that! (It just hit me!)
geposted Sat 15 Oct 05 @ 8:31 pm
PCGumshoe
Well, here's my initial report:
Although I don't have the final settings and it is a one:one transfer, Graphedit is a FREE resolution to the audio problems.
Background on Graphedit: Graphedit was a developer tool that was issued by Microsoft and later pulled. You can still find it by googling it. Once you have it, follow the instructions in the TXT file to register it on your PC... then, depending on what codecs and whatnaught you have in your system, you can pretty much do everything (including re-encode). I believe that the compression stuff will take longer than 1:1, Also, the file I ended up with was shorter, but that may have been an error on my part.
In a nutshell, this did allow me to use the internal video decoder and the video was in synch with the audio. I'll report more, including filters, later. I may also try Divx 6 with little to no compression. My goal is to get the CPU usage to as minimum as possible with maximum resolution. One bar I'm courting to get a gig at has two plasma TVs and everything else that plays on them looks terrible!
Although I don't have the final settings and it is a one:one transfer, Graphedit is a FREE resolution to the audio problems.
Background on Graphedit: Graphedit was a developer tool that was issued by Microsoft and later pulled. You can still find it by googling it. Once you have it, follow the instructions in the TXT file to register it on your PC... then, depending on what codecs and whatnaught you have in your system, you can pretty much do everything (including re-encode). I believe that the compression stuff will take longer than 1:1, Also, the file I ended up with was shorter, but that may have been an error on my part.
In a nutshell, this did allow me to use the internal video decoder and the video was in synch with the audio. I'll report more, including filters, later. I may also try Divx 6 with little to no compression. My goal is to get the CPU usage to as minimum as possible with maximum resolution. One bar I'm courting to get a gig at has two plasma TVs and everything else that plays on them looks terrible!
geposted Sat 15 Oct 05 @ 9:20 pm
acw_dj
djdanmcdermott,
mpeg-2 is better than DivX6, but the DivX format it's amazing; you could have a 200MB videoclip in 30MB with high video quality and good sound. I will use DivX when I can get a higher quality in audio compression (192 or above). But the video quality is very good, you can not tell at first sight which one is mpeg-2 or divx6.
mpeg-2 is better than DivX6, but the DivX format it's amazing; you could have a 200MB videoclip in 30MB with high video quality and good sound. I will use DivX when I can get a higher quality in audio compression (192 or above). But the video quality is very good, you can not tell at first sight which one is mpeg-2 or divx6.
geposted Sat 15 Oct 05 @ 9:21 pm
PCGumshoe
I tried Divx 6, and it won't convert the mpg's that I have that are AC3, so we need a solution. The aforementioned graphedit does it, but I'm still trying to figure out the best graph. I have nero installed, so I'm using their codecs, Elecard's are there too.
geposted Sun 16 Oct 05 @ 2:15 am
DJ Cyder
Hold that thought.....
Once a vob is ripped to the system, you can use a program like imtoo mpeg encoder to re-do the audio part of the track, this works for me sometimes, and sometimes not. Agreed the internal decoder needs a ac3 filter, and this info has been passed onto the dev team, they are well aware of the ac3 issuse.
However
I think the problem is related to windows media player itself I remeber reading a bulliten out by nvidia that they were aware of the sync issues with windows media 10 I'll look for the link but this bug in media player effects all video cards at this time.
Once a vob is ripped to the system, you can use a program like imtoo mpeg encoder to re-do the audio part of the track, this works for me sometimes, and sometimes not. Agreed the internal decoder needs a ac3 filter, and this info has been passed onto the dev team, they are well aware of the ac3 issuse.
However
I think the problem is related to windows media player itself I remeber reading a bulliten out by nvidia that they were aware of the sync issues with windows media 10 I'll look for the link but this bug in media player effects all video cards at this time.
geposted Sun 16 Oct 05 @ 7:30 am
PCGumshoe
Thanks CYDER, however, I'm using Windows Media Player 9... I haven't upgraded... no use for it. On top of that, I use the K-lite codec pack with Windows Media Player lite (or whatever it's called)...
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if the AC3 filter was causing lag it would do it in other programs? Perhaps, and I'm guession, VDJ prioritizes certain filters... Audio is pretty easy to decode, so maybe we are lacking priority on the audio filter in VDJ? I don't know... I'll look for "imtoo" mpeg encoder and give that a whirl. It just seems stupid to have to rip the DVDs again and start dissect them the way I want. I learn best this way. I should have a complete work up on a Graphedit solution by tomorrow, I'm just going to try the most simple way and post it. It should handle the files and is FREE.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if the AC3 filter was causing lag it would do it in other programs? Perhaps, and I'm guession, VDJ prioritizes certain filters... Audio is pretty easy to decode, so maybe we are lacking priority on the audio filter in VDJ? I don't know... I'll look for "imtoo" mpeg encoder and give that a whirl. It just seems stupid to have to rip the DVDs again and start dissect them the way I want. I learn best this way. I should have a complete work up on a Graphedit solution by tomorrow, I'm just going to try the most simple way and post it. It should handle the files and is FREE.
geposted Sun 16 Oct 05 @ 8:14 am
PCGumshoe
I just wrote 1/2 this post and lost it by hitting back (DUMB)
Anyway, as you can tell, I had a boring weekend and nothing better to do. I think I will wait for a solution.
I'm sure I can use NeroVision to do this, but like I said, I was bored.
Program I used was GRAPHEDIT version 9.04.78.0000
Although I use the NERO Direct Show Filters, pick the similar ones you have in your system or download the k-lite codec pack.
Direct Show Filters in Graph:
Nero File Source/Splitter (my vob file selected under *.*)
Nero Video Decoder
AC3 Filter (Change settings to 2.0 Stereo Output)
Nero MPEG Encoder
File Writer (Don't forget to put the extension .mpg)
I ran the graph at about 1:1 conversion. For some strange reason, once it is done I had to close the program and once I had to kill the process in my Task Manager before the file was completed (???)
Original File was a dissected VOB. I used CUT and Paste to get the orginal VOBs on my system, but reassembled them and then used Smartripper to pull the vobs off a Daemon Mount.
The song was Rescue by Uncle Kracker from Promo Only DVD. Original File siaze was 146MB. The MPG was 185MB. After I had the MPG with stereo, I was able to run it through Converter on HI DEF settings and yielded a DIVX6 file that was 33MB. I also took and made a duplicate of the VOB and named the extension .mpeg (Like I said I was bored, and this was just silly)
To follow is a comparison of how the files played. Note, if I used the WMP decoder, they file failed to work on the internal decoder:
Type Decoder Audio CPU on Load CPU on PLAY Laggy?
VOB WMP AC3 100% 35% Yes
MPEG WMP AC3 100% 35% Yes
MPG VDJ 2.0 50% 10% No
Divx6 HD WMP Divx 100% 40% Yes
Well, as you can see, if you accientally decode with the wrong audio and need to convert back there are definite advantages to MPG especially the CPU usage... I just wish I had the storage space for so many files!
There you have it, a temporary solution, I guess. If you have any questions about using Graphedit, I'm not a professional, but am semi familiar with it. I bet there are others here more experienced with it. But it IS free, for those on a budget.
Anyway, as you can tell, I had a boring weekend and nothing better to do. I think I will wait for a solution.
I'm sure I can use NeroVision to do this, but like I said, I was bored.
Program I used was GRAPHEDIT version 9.04.78.0000
Although I use the NERO Direct Show Filters, pick the similar ones you have in your system or download the k-lite codec pack.
Direct Show Filters in Graph:
Nero File Source/Splitter (my vob file selected under *.*)
Nero Video Decoder
AC3 Filter (Change settings to 2.0 Stereo Output)
Nero MPEG Encoder
File Writer (Don't forget to put the extension .mpg)
I ran the graph at about 1:1 conversion. For some strange reason, once it is done I had to close the program and once I had to kill the process in my Task Manager before the file was completed (???)
Original File was a dissected VOB. I used CUT and Paste to get the orginal VOBs on my system, but reassembled them and then used Smartripper to pull the vobs off a Daemon Mount.
The song was Rescue by Uncle Kracker from Promo Only DVD. Original File siaze was 146MB. The MPG was 185MB. After I had the MPG with stereo, I was able to run it through Converter on HI DEF settings and yielded a DIVX6 file that was 33MB. I also took and made a duplicate of the VOB and named the extension .mpeg (Like I said I was bored, and this was just silly)
To follow is a comparison of how the files played. Note, if I used the WMP decoder, they file failed to work on the internal decoder:
Type Decoder Audio CPU on Load CPU on PLAY Laggy?
VOB WMP AC3 100% 35% Yes
MPEG WMP AC3 100% 35% Yes
MPG VDJ 2.0 50% 10% No
Divx6 HD WMP Divx 100% 40% Yes
Well, as you can see, if you accientally decode with the wrong audio and need to convert back there are definite advantages to MPG especially the CPU usage... I just wish I had the storage space for so many files!
There you have it, a temporary solution, I guess. If you have any questions about using Graphedit, I'm not a professional, but am semi familiar with it. I bet there are others here more experienced with it. But it IS free, for those on a budget.
geposted Sun 16 Oct 05 @ 10:04 am
DJ Cyder
New users should note the following.
Promo Only, Screenplay and VMS media all use pcm audio which means the internal decoder of virtualdj & smart-ripper will always yield a perfect vob file with will play in perfect sync (depending on the system and video card of course) with no further steps needed. If you have the space this is the way to go.
Its only videos with ac3 audio (aka 5.1 or 7.1) audio which the internal decoder will not work on because it lacks a fillter for it, as stated before the dev team is aware of this as always we are working toward a soultion and your paitence is greatly appriciated :)
Promo Only, Screenplay and VMS media all use pcm audio which means the internal decoder of virtualdj & smart-ripper will always yield a perfect vob file with will play in perfect sync (depending on the system and video card of course) with no further steps needed. If you have the space this is the way to go.
Its only videos with ac3 audio (aka 5.1 or 7.1) audio which the internal decoder will not work on because it lacks a fillter for it, as stated before the dev team is aware of this as always we are working toward a soultion and your paitence is greatly appriciated :)
geposted Mon 17 Oct 05 @ 5:16 am
PCGumshoe
Thanks Cyder, I was just bored and looking for a solution to the problem that was free. Actually, NERO VISION EXPRESS works fine to convert the file... does anyone notice anything wrong with 480x480 resolution SVCD quality? The bit rate is 2500 and the audio is AUTOMATICALLY perfect. I could do DVD quality at 5000 bitrate (or variable) and make sure the audio is NOT ac3.
I've made some breakthroughs this weekend just working through this problems, so it wasn't a complete waste of my time.
I've made some breakthroughs this weekend just working through this problems, so it wasn't a complete waste of my time.
geposted Mon 17 Oct 05 @ 7:12 am
DJ Cyder
AS,
480x480 is just fine on a tv, because its close to the native resolution of one
The NTSC standard has a fixed vertical resolution of 525 horizontal lines stacked on top of each other, with varying amounts of "lines" making up the horizontal resolution, depending on the electronics and formats involved. There are 59.94 fields displayed per second. A field is a set of even lines, or odd lines. The odd and even fields are displayed sequentially, thus interlacing the full frame. One full frame, therefore, is made of two interlaced fields, and is displayed about every 1/30 of a second.
While all (NTSC) TV sets and program material (broadcasts, tapes, disks, etc.) use the same 525 scan lines, the advertised resolution (240, 425, 500, etc.) refers to the horizontal resolution which is the number of side by side dots that can be reproduced within any one scan line.
The number of scan lines is the limit for vertical resolution, the number of dots in a column that can be reproduced. It is pretty much the same for all decent NTSC TV sets of moderate or large size.
If the video signal was processed digitally at any time, there will be a horizontal pixel count which is is an upper limit for horizontal resolution.
Both horizontal and vertical resolution also depend on how tiny a spot can be produced on the screen.
The finite number of scan lines and, for digital video, the number of pixels horizontally also limit the smoothness of diagonal lines and the resolving of position of fine details.
When evaluating a TV set, DVD player, etc. for purchase, view several programs. It is possible for the program material to be deficient in resolution.
Traditionally, "lines of resolution" is correctly measured across the largest circle that fits in the space you are talking about. However some advertisers exaggerate using the entire screen width or using some electronic formula that only covers part of the circuitry. Modern standards stating resolution or screen dimensions in "pixels" (dots) reflect the entire screen width or height.
For NTSC, the picture occupies approximately 480 of the 525 scan lines. For broadcasts the portion of a scan line that is visible can hold up to about 440 dots so a grid 480 high by 440 wide represents the maximum amount of picture detail possible.
Advertised resolution applies to blacks, grays, and whites only. Color resolution is much less. The human eye and brain are less sensitive to lack of color within fine detail.
"Lines of resolution" for video include both the black lines and the white spaces between them in a test pattern but not the gaps if any between scan lines or between phosphor dots/stripes.
Dot pitch of the screen also limits resolution and applies to rear projection TV sets as well. Pixels do not correspond to phosphor dots or stripes on a picture tube or ribs on a rear projection screen..
The more brightness and color changes, representing picture detail, the greater the circuitry bandwidth and broadcast channel space needed. Horizontal resolution is the first to be affected by bandwidth limitations.
In terms of accurately reproducing the program material, there are three general areas where resolution loss may occur:
1. During capture of the picture information by the camera and electronic processing of the fresh video signal,
2. In the process of storing the picture information on disk or tape, or transmitting it over the air on via satellite or "cable",
3. During playback, in the TV set, also in VCR and disk player electronics.
The video frame can stand for any screen aspect ratio chosen in advance before the subject matter is televised or recorded, although only 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios have been standardized so far for NTSC.
Pixels do not have to be square. The ratio of pixels horizontally to pixels vertically does not imply any specific aspect ratio.
The number of lines of resolution vertically is smaller than the number of scan lines; for digital video the number of lines of horizontal resolution is smaller than the stated number of pixels across. This is because the scan lines or dot positions can straddle subject detail so as to reproduce nothing. Experts disagree on the ratio of lines of resolution to scan lines or pixel positions, some say as little as 70%.
If, during interlaced scanning, the even lines land on top of the odd lines (line pairing) instead of being in between, vertical resolution is lost.
Progressive scan conversion can synthesize but cannot recover details missed because the source was not progressively scanned originally, its main purpose is to reduce flicker by repainting the picture on the screen faster.
Redoubling as a quadrupler might do can synthesize but cannot recover details that scanning the source originally at that faster scan rate right may have recorded. This just repeats each scan line to fill the tiny gaps between scan lines, and/or blends adjacent scan lines to reduce jagged edges.
Today's cable TV systems carry mostly NTSC broadcast quality but they will carry video signals with much more resolution when more customers have HDTV quality TV sets.
If a computer monitor can display 640 x 480 and 1024 x 768, then it can display 720 x 480 or even 1024 x 480.
The rule of 80 lines of resolution for every megahertz of bandwidth (for NTSC) is measured from the carrier frequency to one side only, i.e. the larger sideband when dealing with modulated signals.
480x480 is just fine on a tv, because its close to the native resolution of one
The NTSC standard has a fixed vertical resolution of 525 horizontal lines stacked on top of each other, with varying amounts of "lines" making up the horizontal resolution, depending on the electronics and formats involved. There are 59.94 fields displayed per second. A field is a set of even lines, or odd lines. The odd and even fields are displayed sequentially, thus interlacing the full frame. One full frame, therefore, is made of two interlaced fields, and is displayed about every 1/30 of a second.
While all (NTSC) TV sets and program material (broadcasts, tapes, disks, etc.) use the same 525 scan lines, the advertised resolution (240, 425, 500, etc.) refers to the horizontal resolution which is the number of side by side dots that can be reproduced within any one scan line.
The number of scan lines is the limit for vertical resolution, the number of dots in a column that can be reproduced. It is pretty much the same for all decent NTSC TV sets of moderate or large size.
If the video signal was processed digitally at any time, there will be a horizontal pixel count which is is an upper limit for horizontal resolution.
Both horizontal and vertical resolution also depend on how tiny a spot can be produced on the screen.
The finite number of scan lines and, for digital video, the number of pixels horizontally also limit the smoothness of diagonal lines and the resolving of position of fine details.
When evaluating a TV set, DVD player, etc. for purchase, view several programs. It is possible for the program material to be deficient in resolution.
Traditionally, "lines of resolution" is correctly measured across the largest circle that fits in the space you are talking about. However some advertisers exaggerate using the entire screen width or using some electronic formula that only covers part of the circuitry. Modern standards stating resolution or screen dimensions in "pixels" (dots) reflect the entire screen width or height.
For NTSC, the picture occupies approximately 480 of the 525 scan lines. For broadcasts the portion of a scan line that is visible can hold up to about 440 dots so a grid 480 high by 440 wide represents the maximum amount of picture detail possible.
Advertised resolution applies to blacks, grays, and whites only. Color resolution is much less. The human eye and brain are less sensitive to lack of color within fine detail.
"Lines of resolution" for video include both the black lines and the white spaces between them in a test pattern but not the gaps if any between scan lines or between phosphor dots/stripes.
Dot pitch of the screen also limits resolution and applies to rear projection TV sets as well. Pixels do not correspond to phosphor dots or stripes on a picture tube or ribs on a rear projection screen..
The more brightness and color changes, representing picture detail, the greater the circuitry bandwidth and broadcast channel space needed. Horizontal resolution is the first to be affected by bandwidth limitations.
In terms of accurately reproducing the program material, there are three general areas where resolution loss may occur:
1. During capture of the picture information by the camera and electronic processing of the fresh video signal,
2. In the process of storing the picture information on disk or tape, or transmitting it over the air on via satellite or "cable",
3. During playback, in the TV set, also in VCR and disk player electronics.
The video frame can stand for any screen aspect ratio chosen in advance before the subject matter is televised or recorded, although only 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios have been standardized so far for NTSC.
Pixels do not have to be square. The ratio of pixels horizontally to pixels vertically does not imply any specific aspect ratio.
The number of lines of resolution vertically is smaller than the number of scan lines; for digital video the number of lines of horizontal resolution is smaller than the stated number of pixels across. This is because the scan lines or dot positions can straddle subject detail so as to reproduce nothing. Experts disagree on the ratio of lines of resolution to scan lines or pixel positions, some say as little as 70%.
If, during interlaced scanning, the even lines land on top of the odd lines (line pairing) instead of being in between, vertical resolution is lost.
Progressive scan conversion can synthesize but cannot recover details missed because the source was not progressively scanned originally, its main purpose is to reduce flicker by repainting the picture on the screen faster.
Redoubling as a quadrupler might do can synthesize but cannot recover details that scanning the source originally at that faster scan rate right may have recorded. This just repeats each scan line to fill the tiny gaps between scan lines, and/or blends adjacent scan lines to reduce jagged edges.
Today's cable TV systems carry mostly NTSC broadcast quality but they will carry video signals with much more resolution when more customers have HDTV quality TV sets.
If a computer monitor can display 640 x 480 and 1024 x 768, then it can display 720 x 480 or even 1024 x 480.
The rule of 80 lines of resolution for every megahertz of bandwidth (for NTSC) is measured from the carrier frequency to one side only, i.e. the larger sideband when dealing with modulated signals.
geposted Mon 17 Oct 05 @ 7:44 am
DJ Cyder
In other words
in a normal tv you will see a resolution in 480x480 which is nominal. As you know most of us are dealing with projectors with a native resolution of 1024x768. If you feed it a 480x480 source the projector/video card will have to scale or resize the image. Which will most likely cause some quality loss, or the abilty to see the pixels themselfs. A fair amount of scaling is done with dvd but most likely you will not notice, beacuse there is more information higer res/less compression and the projector/video card will not have to scale as much. Thus a better image. Here is a simple test you can do.
Open a 320x240 mpeg-1 file extend it to full screen on a 1024x768 lcd
Look at the overall quality of the files, you will more than likely say "it looks bad"
The reason it looks bad is because 1, your lcd is resizing the image, and 2 your video card is resizing the image as well. This is 2 generations of scaling, as we all know this will result in a quailty loss of some sort.
The bitrate you can think as the amout of compression or information loss. The higer the bitrate, the lower the compression which will result in higher quailty. The downside is the files are larger.
One thing I have to stress to all of you making the leap into video is this
DVD'S ARE ALREADY COMPRESSED ONCE
Now from our dealings with audio, we know a wav file or cd audio file do be in its native uncompressed state (sorta) We must compress a little due the the limitations of cd (16 bit 44.1 sample rate) Side note cd's have been around since the early 80's doh! Most mastering is now done 24 bit 96 khz so in other words these masters must be dumbed down so that the ageing cd format is still supported.
DVD
High quailty compressed video (broadcast standard)
MPEG stands for "motion pictures expert group" From this group a file format is developed for the process of compressing and saving Video- or Multimedia files (Video, Picture and sound) in high quality. The MPEG-Standard is divided into four parts: MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-3 and MPEG-4 whereby MPEG-3 is made into MPEG-2. (not mp3)
For playing the big data size of movies (90 minutes of Video, 25 frames per second, high resolution, lots of color/info result in about 120 GByte) with "normal" Computers the MPEG codec uses besides JPEG a way for saving only the changes from picture to picture (not M-MJPEG): The MPEG-Format saves in regular times of twelve pictures Intra-Frames (I-Frames); I-Frames are with JPEG compressed pictures. The pictures between the Intra-Frames are saved, if possible, not in full pictures. MPEG saves the information what parts of a picture are changing from the first and next frame. For this also "Predicated Frames" and "B-Frames" (Bi-directional frame) are used. Because of the fact that this almost never works perfectly is in addition to that per frame the changed part in JPEG-Coded saved. With this method it is possible to reduce the data size for about 99%. The maximal possible compression is at 200:1.
in a normal tv you will see a resolution in 480x480 which is nominal. As you know most of us are dealing with projectors with a native resolution of 1024x768. If you feed it a 480x480 source the projector/video card will have to scale or resize the image. Which will most likely cause some quality loss, or the abilty to see the pixels themselfs. A fair amount of scaling is done with dvd but most likely you will not notice, beacuse there is more information higer res/less compression and the projector/video card will not have to scale as much. Thus a better image. Here is a simple test you can do.
Open a 320x240 mpeg-1 file extend it to full screen on a 1024x768 lcd
Look at the overall quality of the files, you will more than likely say "it looks bad"
The reason it looks bad is because 1, your lcd is resizing the image, and 2 your video card is resizing the image as well. This is 2 generations of scaling, as we all know this will result in a quailty loss of some sort.
The bitrate you can think as the amout of compression or information loss. The higer the bitrate, the lower the compression which will result in higher quailty. The downside is the files are larger.
One thing I have to stress to all of you making the leap into video is this
DVD'S ARE ALREADY COMPRESSED ONCE
Now from our dealings with audio, we know a wav file or cd audio file do be in its native uncompressed state (sorta) We must compress a little due the the limitations of cd (16 bit 44.1 sample rate) Side note cd's have been around since the early 80's doh! Most mastering is now done 24 bit 96 khz so in other words these masters must be dumbed down so that the ageing cd format is still supported.
DVD
High quailty compressed video (broadcast standard)
MPEG stands for "motion pictures expert group" From this group a file format is developed for the process of compressing and saving Video- or Multimedia files (Video, Picture and sound) in high quality. The MPEG-Standard is divided into four parts: MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-3 and MPEG-4 whereby MPEG-3 is made into MPEG-2. (not mp3)
For playing the big data size of movies (90 minutes of Video, 25 frames per second, high resolution, lots of color/info result in about 120 GByte) with "normal" Computers the MPEG codec uses besides JPEG a way for saving only the changes from picture to picture (not M-MJPEG): The MPEG-Format saves in regular times of twelve pictures Intra-Frames (I-Frames); I-Frames are with JPEG compressed pictures. The pictures between the Intra-Frames are saved, if possible, not in full pictures. MPEG saves the information what parts of a picture are changing from the first and next frame. For this also "Predicated Frames" and "B-Frames" (Bi-directional frame) are used. Because of the fact that this almost never works perfectly is in addition to that per frame the changed part in JPEG-Coded saved. With this method it is possible to reduce the data size for about 99%. The maximal possible compression is at 200:1.
geposted Mon 17 Oct 05 @ 5:39 pm
TileTom
Wow. Now we all know why we haven't seen you on-line lately...
You've been writing this book! Thanks for all the info.
You've been writing this book! Thanks for all the info.
geposted Tue 18 Oct 05 @ 1:31 pm
acw_dj
Cyder we still missing something... We can use the VGA output to our projectors and got 1024x768, but if anyone of us use the S-Video or RCA outputs; the resolution standars of these change everything.
RCA works in a less resolution (TV standar i remember from few years was 320 lines) and S-Video have more resolution (400 lines and 480 lines in much cases) the maximun resolution (in lines) was about 800 and 1000. Using this info, DVD is 720x480 ~ 800 lines then do your math... RCA is and analogic signal with a resolution equivalence of no more of 320x240, not resizing like in VGA, is direct output and display only. S-Video have more resolution than RCA, but again not equivalent resizing like in VGA.
Some projectors don't have good quality in VGA unless we use the maximun resolution it displays (1024x768). When we map to use it in 720x480 we loss quality in that projectors. In that case is better go with the S-Video input.
RCA works in a less resolution (TV standar i remember from few years was 320 lines) and S-Video have more resolution (400 lines and 480 lines in much cases) the maximun resolution (in lines) was about 800 and 1000. Using this info, DVD is 720x480 ~ 800 lines then do your math... RCA is and analogic signal with a resolution equivalence of no more of 320x240, not resizing like in VGA, is direct output and display only. S-Video have more resolution than RCA, but again not equivalent resizing like in VGA.
Some projectors don't have good quality in VGA unless we use the maximun resolution it displays (1024x768). When we map to use it in 720x480 we loss quality in that projectors. In that case is better go with the S-Video input.
geposted Tue 18 Oct 05 @ 6:57 pm
djdanmcdermott
Thanks to everyone for your help so far.
I'm going to experiment with the graphedit approach, although that would take a LONG time to redo all my files. I have almost a hundred commercial dvds.
Same thing with Nero, although we are also talking a lot of time, unless it will do a batch process where I can load a bunch of files, hit go and sleep or something while it hums away. Anyone know if it will do this?
Would another solution be to use Windows Media player or Power DVD to play videos instead of VDJ until they add an AC3 filter to the internal video decoder? Does anyone know if either of these programs will send video to my SVideo port on my card instead of the screen? If not, any ideas on the best program for this?
DJ Cyder: any idea on the estimated time of a fix for this from the dev team?
Thanks.
I'm going to experiment with the graphedit approach, although that would take a LONG time to redo all my files. I have almost a hundred commercial dvds.
Same thing with Nero, although we are also talking a lot of time, unless it will do a batch process where I can load a bunch of files, hit go and sleep or something while it hums away. Anyone know if it will do this?
Would another solution be to use Windows Media player or Power DVD to play videos instead of VDJ until they add an AC3 filter to the internal video decoder? Does anyone know if either of these programs will send video to my SVideo port on my card instead of the screen? If not, any ideas on the best program for this?
DJ Cyder: any idea on the estimated time of a fix for this from the dev team?
Thanks.
geposted Tue 18 Oct 05 @ 9:35 pm
john london
I use power dvd all the time in a pub gig, simply set up my laptop to dual monitor, drag the powerdvd picture onto the second monitor i.e. the video output, expand it and then queue up the tunes in the file manager part of powerdvd and use the keyboard to play the next tune ( the n key ). The downside of this approach is that you have to talk over the "non mix" or it's a little clunky. It helps that i've edited all my video files so that they start on a beat. Wouldn't want to use it anywhere with a dance floor.
geposted Tue 18 Oct 05 @ 10:12 pm
DJ Cyder
Which VGA are you talking about?
VGA XGA SXGA UXGA WXGA WSXGA WUXGA?
Resolution refers to the sharpness, or detail, of the visual image. It is primarily a function of the monitor and is determined by the beam size and dot pitch (sometimes called "line pitch"). An image is created when a beam of electrons strikes phosphors which coat the base of the monitor's "screen. A group comprising one red, one green and one blue phosphor is known as a pixel.(ah ha) A pixel represents the smallest piece of the screen that can be controlled individually, and each pixel can be set to a different color and intensity. A complete screen image is composed of thousands of pixels and the screen's resolution - specified in terms of a row by column figure - is the maximum number of displayable pixels. The higher the resolution, the more pixels that can be displayed and therefore the more information the screen can display at any given time. Resolutions generally fall into predefined sets
CGA Color Graphics Adapter 640 x 200
EGA Enhanced Graphics Adapter 640 x 350
VGA Video Graphics Array 640 x 480
XGA Extended Graphics Array 1024 x 768
SXGA Super Extended Graphics 1280 x 1024
UXGA Ultra Extended Graphics 1600 x 1200
WXGA Wide Extended Graphics 1366 x 768
WUXGA Wide Ultra Extended Graphics 1920 x 1200
The total lack of a accepted standard for VGA pixel addressabilities was a problem for manufacturers, system builders, programmers and end users alike. Now comes along thes folks called Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA) - a group of card, monitor makers. Their whole thing was to come up with a standard so all this "stuff" could get along developed a family of video standards that were backward compatible with VGA (woot) but offered greater resolution and more colors. For a while - prior "XGA" family of definitions - VESA's VGA BIOS Extensions (collectively known as Super VGA) were the closest thing to a standard.
Moving on
Component video: Elements that make up a video signal: luminance, which represents brightness in the image, and separate red and blue signals (expressed as either Y R-Y B-Y or Y Pb Pr). Component video signals are superior to composite and S-video images because of improved color purity, superior color detail, and a reduction in color noise and NTSC artifacts. (rgb vga see a pattern?)
Composite video: The video signal combining luminance and chrominance, the burst signal and sync data (horizontal and vertical). A direct video connection using an RCA-type plug and jack; its signal quality is better than the RF type of connection but inferior to S-video and component video.
S-video (Y/C): Higher quality video input and output than composite video connection that segregates chrominance and luminance signals for optimum reproduction from high-quality video sources such as SVHS, Hi8 and DVD players. Not as good as component video, but more common.
To sum it all up the signal itself is differnt in these connections as well as the resolution.
VGA XGA SXGA UXGA WXGA WSXGA WUXGA?
Resolution refers to the sharpness, or detail, of the visual image. It is primarily a function of the monitor and is determined by the beam size and dot pitch (sometimes called "line pitch"). An image is created when a beam of electrons strikes phosphors which coat the base of the monitor's "screen. A group comprising one red, one green and one blue phosphor is known as a pixel.(ah ha) A pixel represents the smallest piece of the screen that can be controlled individually, and each pixel can be set to a different color and intensity. A complete screen image is composed of thousands of pixels and the screen's resolution - specified in terms of a row by column figure - is the maximum number of displayable pixels. The higher the resolution, the more pixels that can be displayed and therefore the more information the screen can display at any given time. Resolutions generally fall into predefined sets
CGA Color Graphics Adapter 640 x 200
EGA Enhanced Graphics Adapter 640 x 350
VGA Video Graphics Array 640 x 480
XGA Extended Graphics Array 1024 x 768
SXGA Super Extended Graphics 1280 x 1024
UXGA Ultra Extended Graphics 1600 x 1200
WXGA Wide Extended Graphics 1366 x 768
WUXGA Wide Ultra Extended Graphics 1920 x 1200
The total lack of a accepted standard for VGA pixel addressabilities was a problem for manufacturers, system builders, programmers and end users alike. Now comes along thes folks called Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA) - a group of card, monitor makers. Their whole thing was to come up with a standard so all this "stuff" could get along developed a family of video standards that were backward compatible with VGA (woot) but offered greater resolution and more colors. For a while - prior "XGA" family of definitions - VESA's VGA BIOS Extensions (collectively known as Super VGA) were the closest thing to a standard.
Moving on
Component video: Elements that make up a video signal: luminance, which represents brightness in the image, and separate red and blue signals (expressed as either Y R-Y B-Y or Y Pb Pr). Component video signals are superior to composite and S-video images because of improved color purity, superior color detail, and a reduction in color noise and NTSC artifacts. (rgb vga see a pattern?)
Composite video: The video signal combining luminance and chrominance, the burst signal and sync data (horizontal and vertical). A direct video connection using an RCA-type plug and jack; its signal quality is better than the RF type of connection but inferior to S-video and component video.
S-video (Y/C): Higher quality video input and output than composite video connection that segregates chrominance and luminance signals for optimum reproduction from high-quality video sources such as SVHS, Hi8 and DVD players. Not as good as component video, but more common.
To sum it all up the signal itself is differnt in these connections as well as the resolution.
geposted Tue 18 Oct 05 @ 10:34 pm
acw_dj
Cyder come on. VGA= ALL (from 640x480 to 1920x1200) and for the present talk XGA. LCD manage their pixels in other way than CRT do, that's why some resolutions in LCD doesn't look well. In CRT every resolution below the maximum works ok (If there is supported by the manufacturer). But thanks for the info.
And for composite video (RCA) and Super-Video (S-Video) How are the resolutions? (is there a pixel equivalent you know?)
And for composite video (RCA) and Super-Video (S-Video) How are the resolutions? (is there a pixel equivalent you know?)
geposted Tue 18 Oct 05 @ 11:32 pm
DJ Cyder
well that's what i've been trying to tell you, there really isn't because there is no real way to convert hozontial scan lines to pixels, if there is I don't know of it yet.
The quality in these two connections (svideo&compsite), is differnt because the signal itself is differnt. Means they work differntly as explaied above. You can send more information to the tv but it will still display the same amount of scan lines according to the ntsc and pal standards. Also don't forget the third factor the tv itself, it can be told what colors scan lines, etc but that doesn't mean the daewoo at 129 is going to look as good as the sony at 1100.
Interlaced video presents another entirely differnt problem all togeter for lcds as you know, we can save that discussion for a later time tho :)
The quality in these two connections (svideo&compsite), is differnt because the signal itself is differnt. Means they work differntly as explaied above. You can send more information to the tv but it will still display the same amount of scan lines according to the ntsc and pal standards. Also don't forget the third factor the tv itself, it can be told what colors scan lines, etc but that doesn't mean the daewoo at 129 is going to look as good as the sony at 1100.
Interlaced video presents another entirely differnt problem all togeter for lcds as you know, we can save that discussion for a later time tho :)
geposted Wed 19 Oct 05 @ 12:29 am
djdanmcdermott
Well I tried playing the videos that VDJ doesn't recognize with Power DVD (only played left channel for some reason) and with Windows Media Player. Unfortunately, even though I had disabled VDJ's video features in config first, I still had major stability issues running VDJ and either Power DVD or WMP at the same time.
So in order to play a video rip of anything other than a Promo Only DVD and have it in synch with the audio, you have to exit Virtual DJ, load Power DVD or WMP and start the video, move it over to the other screen, then maximize it, with the audience watching the screens the whole time as you move your mouse around and do this. Then you exit that program (and have dead air or have to try and talk while you are doing this), start Virtual DJ, change the config to do video again, load up something, and hit play.
Needless to say, I hope the dev team comes out with a new video decoder soon that will handle videos other than Promo Only and Screenplay, lol.
So in order to play a video rip of anything other than a Promo Only DVD and have it in synch with the audio, you have to exit Virtual DJ, load Power DVD or WMP and start the video, move it over to the other screen, then maximize it, with the audience watching the screens the whole time as you move your mouse around and do this. Then you exit that program (and have dead air or have to try and talk while you are doing this), start Virtual DJ, change the config to do video again, load up something, and hit play.
Needless to say, I hope the dev team comes out with a new video decoder soon that will handle videos other than Promo Only and Screenplay, lol.
geposted Thu 20 Oct 05 @ 9:56 am