JayFah
Hey everyone i hope u had a good new year,i just have a couple of questions, i was browsing the internet and saw some forums which indicated that u cant rely on bpm counters since sometimes they mislead and that a good dj shouldn't use em',am just wondering cuz am kinda used to the bpm counters and basically they help and guide me through what music i could mix and the range
,so my main question is that do we need to rely on bpm counters? or we should just try to struggle the hard way by manual tappin n so forth? and almost all the forums i went thru wuz like they're addictive and we shouldnt rely on them at all? any replies greatly appreciated thnks!
,so my main question is that do we need to rely on bpm counters? or we should just try to struggle the hard way by manual tappin n so forth? and almost all the forums i went thru wuz like they're addictive and we shouldnt rely on them at all? any replies greatly appreciated thnks!
geposted Sun 01 Jan 06 @ 11:00 pm
bagpuss
A very controversial subject amoungst dedicated DJ's, personally I like useing BPM readings as they are more often than not accurate (and can be perfected when useing a PC) and allow more time for other areas of the mix, as well as communicating with the audience.
Most people spend a considerable amount of time beat matching manually (relative to a songs length), I prefer the task of harmonic key matching and generally creative mixing, more time provides more opportunity.
However those that prefer to do this manually are no less capable, but prefer the whole manual process of mixing.
For me it's about striking the balance between working manually to get the mix tight as well as having a theoretical edge that a computer provides, allowing you to see a songs structure visually and providing endless opportunity for creative mixing. useing BPM readings is an advantage I'd rather have than not when creativity and originality is my priority.
"The way I look at it is like a pilot. When he’s flying the plane manually, hands on the controls, he’s having a right old laugh, getting a good buzz, but then when he goes into autopilot, holding the plane on a steady course, he can do a thousand other things in the cockpit."
Most people spend a considerable amount of time beat matching manually (relative to a songs length), I prefer the task of harmonic key matching and generally creative mixing, more time provides more opportunity.
However those that prefer to do this manually are no less capable, but prefer the whole manual process of mixing.
For me it's about striking the balance between working manually to get the mix tight as well as having a theoretical edge that a computer provides, allowing you to see a songs structure visually and providing endless opportunity for creative mixing. useing BPM readings is an advantage I'd rather have than not when creativity and originality is my priority.
"The way I look at it is like a pilot. When he’s flying the plane manually, hands on the controls, he’s having a right old laugh, getting a good buzz, but then when he goes into autopilot, holding the plane on a steady course, he can do a thousand other things in the cockpit."
geposted Sun 01 Jan 06 @ 11:33 pm
JayFah
thats true bagpuss at the end of the day what is really important is the transitions and how u brought your tracks and tunes in know what i mean? but they had this issue that if theylet u play at a club and basicaly their equipments didn't have bpm counters on them, does that mean you screwed? and if so what would u really do to keep up to date by somehow relying on your bpm counter and at the same time have flawless mixes,one more point the counter doesn't bring the tune in,the dj does! i mean am really confused cuz it really seemz like a big deal cuz 90percent of the forums i went through everybody is against the counters,and does it make you a bettter dj if u don't use them,controversial indeed,i dont mind puttin a tape on my bpm counters but against the fact that u not a real dj if using bpms
geposted Sun 01 Jan 06 @ 11:51 pm
chabonk
Don't worry about what others think... there will always be insecure "haters" trying to put your skills down! Nothing wrong with using counters or any tool that will enhance your skills. The most important thing is that your customers (women) are happy. Most people don't care about the technical stuff ...beat matching ....harmonic mixing. They just want to hear good music and have fun!
geposted Mon 02 Jan 06 @ 6:56 am
djaditya
Hi all..I had a similar situation at a this gig i played at..it was huge, Smirnoff and Some other brands organised it here..anyways,there was another dj (a CDJ) and i was a VDJ...But he kept making a fuss about what im doing and he kept saying that im not a real DJ cos im relying on the pc to do the BPM counting...and that was all which was auto..i had switched off evrything else for better control...i kept my mouth shut cos there was no use talking to him anyway... The Crowd Loved me absolutely... Infact, after i took a break and he started, they Boo'd him and were calling for me again!!! I just Cant stand it when the other djs do this, after all ITS A PARTY and everyone wants to have a blast..not argue about whos counting the BPM for u!
geposted Mon 02 Jan 06 @ 3:07 pm
asymptote
As always it's the music that matters.
The crowd don't give a damn whether you use beatcounters or not.
There have always been these self opiniated so called djs who go around dissing others. Not professional at all. I've come across these wannabees since 1974. They usually sidle up to the dj booth and announce 'I'm a DJ too', then start criticising. I usually humour them for a while, then if they carry on, suggest they go away and try to get a gig cos if they are such a good dj why aren't they working tonight.
Andy
The crowd don't give a damn whether you use beatcounters or not.
There have always been these self opiniated so called djs who go around dissing others. Not professional at all. I've come across these wannabees since 1974. They usually sidle up to the dj booth and announce 'I'm a DJ too', then start criticising. I usually humour them for a while, then if they carry on, suggest they go away and try to get a gig cos if they are such a good dj why aren't they working tonight.
Andy
geposted Mon 02 Jan 06 @ 4:03 pm
bagpuss
Yea there's alot of bedroom talent but when it comes to taking to the stage that talent doesn't always prevail under pressure. A good DJ is a person with confidence, this is my personal weakness and I say it openly :).
Things like BPM counters are good for assurance when one is nervous.
Things like BPM counters are good for assurance when one is nervous.
geposted Mon 02 Jan 06 @ 4:07 pm
bogart
Bagpuss; glad to hear someone else admit they get a bit nervous. I still get somewhat nervous when doing a gig. Just want everyone to be happy and have a good time, even though there will always be someone who isn't going to be happy no matter what,
geposted Mon 02 Jan 06 @ 4:41 pm
asymptote
Hi
I couldn't agree more, I started in 1973 ish and still feel nervous before I start a gig and at certain moments during an evening. I think it is a good thing, because it means that you're not taking things for granted - sort of makes you keener - gives the occasion an edge
Andy
I couldn't agree more, I started in 1973 ish and still feel nervous before I start a gig and at certain moments during an evening. I think it is a good thing, because it means that you're not taking things for granted - sort of makes you keener - gives the occasion an edge
Andy
geposted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 2:45 pm
djcity
I've Been spinnin for about 15 years. In the past I did not use BPM'S. I did not even know about BPM's. I spun vinal by ear. If I could sing 2 different songs in my head at the same time and they sounded about the same speed...I could mix them. That simple. I would tell new dj's to just listen to the music and you will hear what mixes and what wont mix. If you can play one song and sing another to the same beat then go for it. (Thats what cueing and headphones are for). I got into BPM'ing about 5 years ago and YES it is addictive. It can dull your skills and make you not trust or use your own ears. BPM'ing can also get you into the habit of playing the same set over and over again. Don't get me wrong... I use BPM's. I think they are a great tool but every DJ "should" be able to mix without "RELYING" on BPM's. If you can only mix using BPM's, you may want to reconsider your skills as a DJ and put in more time honing your craft. Good luck to all and...
Keep it Movin
DJ CITY
Keep it Movin
DJ CITY
geposted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 10:53 pm
geeleher
As a rookie I gotta say that I use them a lot. As "bedroom DJ" I can't freakin remember 10k songs so I use it as a cheat to scan through smaller list. I don't think it gives a pure dead on accuracte count but it probably gets you close enough.
Think of it like using the computer for its strength, brute force calcuation. "True DJs" probably get stuck in their "wheelhouse" cuz they can't remember on the fly all the songs in that range. VDJs get to see the whole list so while they may forget an epiphany might strike when they look at the list. As long as you don't blindly rely on BPMs you will be okay.
People who argue against BPMs probably didn't like calcuators in school.
Sean
geposted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 1:59 am
JayFah
Yeah Thats a true point DJ city in that if u follow the bpm u can definitely find yourself doing the same set all the time,and basically it just gets more confusing cuz at the same time the main purpose of mixing is finding two odd tunes and make them feel nice when they're together! by the way am starting to train ma ears kinda hard but will get used to it,since it's all bout creativity huh? that don't mean i wont use ma bpm counters to guide me thru ma set while am mastering the art of listening!!
geposted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 2:35 am
l_rids
I've always been under the impression that the perfect mix is two songs with matching bpm and matching key or aka harmonic. I would have no concept on how to mix songs with matching key however different bpm. How?
Only way I can think of it is an abrupt transition or typical slow crossfade which usually sounz shitty.
Only way I can think of it is an abrupt transition or typical slow crossfade which usually sounz shitty.
geposted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 4:09 am
frd1963
Rids,
If 2 songs have same key but different BPM, then you would have to adjust the BPM on one of them in order to do a fade mix of any kind. However, adjusting the BPM also adjusts the pitch (key) unless you use Master Tempo (aka Timestretch) which is easily done in VDJ.
What's harder, is 2 songs with the same BPM but different key (assuming you want to match the key.) In that case, you would have to adjust the pitch to get the keys the same but that would also cause your BPM's to be off, so you would not be able to do a slow transition. That is why many have requested separate key and tempo ontrols.
If 2 songs have same key but different BPM, then you would have to adjust the BPM on one of them in order to do a fade mix of any kind. However, adjusting the BPM also adjusts the pitch (key) unless you use Master Tempo (aka Timestretch) which is easily done in VDJ.
What's harder, is 2 songs with the same BPM but different key (assuming you want to match the key.) In that case, you would have to adjust the pitch to get the keys the same but that would also cause your BPM's to be off, so you would not be able to do a slow transition. That is why many have requested separate key and tempo ontrols.
geposted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 5:40 pm
steve_djdawson
my personal solution to the whole "BPM Counters" issue, is don't stay hopping on one foot, practice your talent to beat match without them, use them when their available.
For instance, I play a lot of R&B, and I'd never know which songs were in BPM-range of each other with out it....
But with house music, I'd be fine.
Just have one foot in each door ;)
For instance, I play a lot of R&B, and I'd never know which songs were in BPM-range of each other with out it....
But with house music, I'd be fine.
Just have one foot in each door ;)
geposted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 9:53 pm
bagpuss
Not that beat matching has ever really been important...lool.
geposted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 9:55 pm
JayFah
funny one bagpuss! i think i'll play safe and put ma foot on both doors that means more practising i hate that! but gota do what i gota do
geposted Thu 05 Jan 06 @ 1:28 am
djcity
Woah now... Have I been an inspiration to some of you DJ's to get back to the basics??? Damn, I'm proud of myself. More importantly, I'm proud of you all. To all the DJ's that have been doing it for years (like the years BEFORE cd'jing and cpu dj'ing) you know what it's like workin with 2 turntables, a mixer and a boatload of record cases. Some of us used milkcrates to carry records around from gig to gig. Do yall remeber that??? the good old days...
I love all the new hi tech stuff available today but once again......
DON'T LOSE YOUR SKILLS TO BPM'S, KEY MATCHING, OR ANYTHING ELSE ! ! !
Like it says in the movie The Lion king "Remeber Who You Are"
You can use all the technology you can, whatever makes the show easier and better, but lets not forget what DJ'ing is and lets not forget how to DO IT.
Plz feel free to comment.
One Love... Respect to the origonals (Grandmaster flash, Kool Herc, Scott La rock, Jazzy Jeff, Jam Master Jay And so many more I can't name.
DJ CITY
I love all the new hi tech stuff available today but once again......
DON'T LOSE YOUR SKILLS TO BPM'S, KEY MATCHING, OR ANYTHING ELSE ! ! !
Like it says in the movie The Lion king "Remeber Who You Are"
You can use all the technology you can, whatever makes the show easier and better, but lets not forget what DJ'ing is and lets not forget how to DO IT.
Plz feel free to comment.
One Love... Respect to the origonals (Grandmaster flash, Kool Herc, Scott La rock, Jazzy Jeff, Jam Master Jay And so many more I can't name.
DJ CITY
geposted Thu 05 Jan 06 @ 3:40 am
dj maddsound
Very well put.
MS
MS
geposted Fri 06 Jan 06 @ 1:53 am