asymptote
I use both but VDJ is my preference. I prefer the simple waveform, but for scratching, the SSL colours might be useful.
The weaknesses of SSL are that there is no auto bpm calculation, so you have to do it with mixmeister bpm calculator as a separate process. And with VDJ if you are in a fix it's possible to get out quickly by putting tracks in sync with the computer just by clicking on the sync button and then click again. You may never need it, but it's there for an emergency.
Beatmatching with the visual aids on SSL isn't all it's made out to be. If you're relying on the grid to get the tempos matched exactly it's fiddly and easy to get it wrong. If you do it by ear that's fine but VDJ is easier in my opinion.
When you change the tempo with SSL the tempo readout on the screen doesn't change to tell you what you've changed the tempo to. It just sticks with the original bpm as calculated by mixmeister. Plus the pitch of the song changes as you change the tempo. With VDJ it's dead easy. You can see in the readout what the actual bpm is as you change the pitch with the sliders.
I don't use video at present, but it's nice to know it's there if I decide to or go to a venue where there's some screens.
Sound quality is equivalent and stability is fine for both IMO
These are some of my reasons for preferring VDJ. Plus the support on VDJ forums is second to none, with a friendly community who'll help you out in a minute or two when you need it. Fantastic.
These are just my opinions from my own experience as a DJ with 33 years experience of all type of venues. Of course for scratch users, some of this doesn't make any difference..
A
The weaknesses of SSL are that there is no auto bpm calculation, so you have to do it with mixmeister bpm calculator as a separate process. And with VDJ if you are in a fix it's possible to get out quickly by putting tracks in sync with the computer just by clicking on the sync button and then click again. You may never need it, but it's there for an emergency.
Beatmatching with the visual aids on SSL isn't all it's made out to be. If you're relying on the grid to get the tempos matched exactly it's fiddly and easy to get it wrong. If you do it by ear that's fine but VDJ is easier in my opinion.
When you change the tempo with SSL the tempo readout on the screen doesn't change to tell you what you've changed the tempo to. It just sticks with the original bpm as calculated by mixmeister. Plus the pitch of the song changes as you change the tempo. With VDJ it's dead easy. You can see in the readout what the actual bpm is as you change the pitch with the sliders.
I don't use video at present, but it's nice to know it's there if I decide to or go to a venue where there's some screens.
Sound quality is equivalent and stability is fine for both IMO
These are some of my reasons for preferring VDJ. Plus the support on VDJ forums is second to none, with a friendly community who'll help you out in a minute or two when you need it. Fantastic.
These are just my opinions from my own experience as a DJ with 33 years experience of all type of venues. Of course for scratch users, some of this doesn't make any difference..
A
geposted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 6:45 pm
anewsome
Mantahoe wrote :
IMO, I'd say only the build of SSL TCV's is better. That & the color coded wave form(not the way it sits, just the color). Sound quality & latency i'd say is matched since 4.0 came out. In every other aspect VDJ wins. That's just my opinion.
My SSL vinyls make VDJ run 6 percent slower. I'm not sure how people are getting them to work at regular speed.
geposted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 6:45 pm
anewsome
asymptote wrote :
When you change the tempo with SSL the tempo readout on the screen doesn't change to tell you what you've changed the tempo to. It just sticks with the original bpm as calculated by mixmeister. Plus the pitch of the song changes as you change the tempo. With VDJ it's dead easy. You can see in the readout what the actual bpm is as you change the pitch with the sliders.
When you change the tempo with SSL the tempo readout on the screen doesn't change to tell you what you've changed the tempo to. It just sticks with the original bpm as calculated by mixmeister. Plus the pitch of the song changes as you change the tempo. With VDJ it's dead easy. You can see in the readout what the actual bpm is as you change the pitch with the sliders.
Check the option "show pitched bpm" in the setup screen. The bpms will change on screen when you slide the pitch slider.
geposted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 6:53 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
anewsome wrote :
No offense norway, but I find it absolutely incredible and completely unbelievable that any real pro djs who use tcv, ssl specifically would say that vdj tcv support os on par with ssl.
No offense norway, but I find it absolutely incredible and completely unbelievable that any real pro djs who use tcv, ssl specifically would say that vdj tcv support os on par with ssl.
No offence taken ;) I'm just curious to what can be improved in VDJ ;) from your point of view
Btw, non of these djs use software on a regualar basis.. they are real vinyl djs..
Just wanted their non biased opinion. In the end they favored real vinyls though ;) Guess thats their bias and prefference in the end ...
But would like to hear your prefferences, why you would say SSL works better for you than VDJ ;)
geposted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 7:12 pm
asymptote
@anewsome Cheers ;-)
Thanks for the tip, and I am sure that SSL will make changes to incorporate bpm calculations and pitch control soon. I think the two programs are a lot closer to each other than they were now and it's easy to like one and not the other just on personal taste.
It's the competition that keeps things going and us the users benefit hopefully.
I've got to say that if I worked in the clubs I wouldn't use computers, I'd be 100% vinyl. The amount I would need to carry wouldn't break my back compared to the box after box I would have to carry as a mobile DJ. Plus which after 33 years vinyl is a part of me.
Any way must go to work.
A
Thanks for the tip, and I am sure that SSL will make changes to incorporate bpm calculations and pitch control soon. I think the two programs are a lot closer to each other than they were now and it's easy to like one and not the other just on personal taste.
It's the competition that keeps things going and us the users benefit hopefully.
I've got to say that if I worked in the clubs I wouldn't use computers, I'd be 100% vinyl. The amount I would need to carry wouldn't break my back compared to the box after box I would have to carry as a mobile DJ. Plus which after 33 years vinyl is a part of me.
Any way must go to work.
A
geposted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 7:34 pm
anewsome
asymptote wrote :
Thanks for the tip, and I am sure that SSL will make changes to incorporate bpm calculations and pitch control soon. I think the two programs are a lot closer to each other than they were now and it's easy to like one and not the other just on personal taste.
pitch-n-time is serato's high end pitch correction engine and it's been available as a vst plugin for some time. it's coming to ssl too. it's already in their lab beta's i'm told. in when it's released, it'll keep the pitch of your song locked as you change the tempo but that's about it. it won't do all the stuff vdj does. for the majority of ssl users, that's all they really want. a future release is promising adding the aditional ability to discrentinary pitch alteration, regardless of tempo. neat feature i guess. i probably don't have a lot of use for it though.
geposted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 7:45 pm
Mantahoe
anewsome wrote :
My SSL vinyls make VDJ run 6 percent slower. I'm not sure how people are getting them to work at regular speed.
Exactly, so you set your TT's/cd players 6 percent higher & leave it there.
geposted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 8:18 pm
Superstom
dj-in-norway wrote :
- This was VDJ running on an expensive pro soundcard in class with SL-1, and not on semi-pro cheaper models with higher latency. Done for a real comparison, where both software had same starting point.
- This was VDJ running on an expensive pro soundcard in class with SL-1, and not on semi-pro cheaper models with higher latency. Done for a real comparison, where both software had same starting point.
@Norway, what card was used during this experiment?
Mantahoe wrote :
Exactly, so you set your TT's/cd players 6 percent higher & leave it there.
Exactly, so you set your TT's/cd players 6 percent higher & leave it there.
@Mantahoe, that is not a workable solution, while on a Technics 1200, you have only 2% pitch range left in the plus range. I know you could use the internal vdj pitch. But in my opinion: if you use time code, you're using timecode and not the internal vdj pitch or beat lock
Ewout
geposted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 2:43 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Superstom wrote :
@Norway, what card was used during this experiment?
@Norway, what card was used during this experiment?
Delta 44.
There are probably even better cards than that.
But gave super low latency,
I had a friend that runs an audio production studio bring one of his pc's.
He uses ProTools, and knew the Delta well.
The card impressed me...
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta44-main.html
I will add though:
- What was compared was the sound of the software, and scratch.
Now Anewsome have already said that VDJ4 sounds as good as SSL on that department.
We did not test "behaviour modes" (relative, absolute), so Anewsomes points regarding that this could be implemented better stands unchallenged from my test.
geposted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 2:49 pm
Superstom
Rune, thanks for the fast reply.
I plan on buying a Rme Fireface 400. I made an appointment with a dealer of this card, to test it. I will kake both my laptop as my barebone, 2 cd players and 2 turntables and will give it a try.
Ewout
I plan on buying a Rme Fireface 400. I made an appointment with a dealer of this card, to test it. I will kake both my laptop as my barebone, 2 cd players and 2 turntables and will give it a try.
Ewout
geposted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 4:29 pm
blazemonger
IMO SSL outperforms VDJ on the far superior recordcase alone. Also the way it is truly geared towards club use and the clever way the software is set up to allow you to create your recordcase at home, then just bring your USB HD and plug it into the clubs SSL system to find your personal recordcase setup for you without the need to reboot or anything fancy is the bomb.
Then there's built in recording allowing a recording (either from mic in or mix out) to be instantaneous transferred to a player and available for mix/scratch. BPM is nice to have, but a IMO not critical. The Waveform is way more informative too.
The only thing missing (right now) that is a plus for VDJ would be master tempo, although VDJs is not the best there either. Video is cool and can be quite useful, but again it's a nice add-on for me.
I like VDJ a lot and think it has a distinct advantage over most software targeting the same audience, but SSL is just in another market (which it owns) IMO. Similar but different. So it's more like apples and oranges.
Then there's built in recording allowing a recording (either from mic in or mix out) to be instantaneous transferred to a player and available for mix/scratch. BPM is nice to have, but a IMO not critical. The Waveform is way more informative too.
The only thing missing (right now) that is a plus for VDJ would be master tempo, although VDJs is not the best there either. Video is cool and can be quite useful, but again it's a nice add-on for me.
I like VDJ a lot and think it has a distinct advantage over most software targeting the same audience, but SSL is just in another market (which it owns) IMO. Similar but different. So it's more like apples and oranges.
geposted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 4:35 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Please post your findings... ;)
geposted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 4:37 pm
anewsome
Superstom wrote :
Rune, thanks for the fast reply.
I plan on buying a Rme Fireface 400. I made an appointment with a dealer of this card, to test it. I will kake both my laptop as my barebone, 2 cd players and 2 turntables and will give it a try.
Ewout
I plan on buying a Rme Fireface 400. I made an appointment with a dealer of this card, to test it. I will kake both my laptop as my barebone, 2 cd players and 2 turntables and will give it a try.
Ewout
I'd be interested to hear how this goes.
geposted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 5:39 pm
dj maddsound
Anewsome welcome back to being a VIP member again...
MS
MS
geposted Mon 16 Oct 06 @ 1:00 am
DJ-ALF
Yes, welcome! Why you lose your vip status anyway? You were a bad boy :) ? lol
geposted Mon 16 Oct 06 @ 11:07 am
Superstom
DJ Alf, search the forum, you might find a couple of threads where this "issue" was discussed.
But please forget this, we have to move forward. Im very happy that Anewsome is back on the forum (I mean as active vip member, I think he was many times around ;-)). We could use some guys doing lots of larger gigs helping the team to get an ever better VDJ.
Ewout
But please forget this, we have to move forward. Im very happy that Anewsome is back on the forum (I mean as active vip member, I think he was many times around ;-)). We could use some guys doing lots of larger gigs helping the team to get an ever better VDJ.
Ewout
geposted Mon 16 Oct 06 @ 7:31 pm
Dj Xeo
its gotta be said but if anewsome was on the beta team for 4.0, things may have worked out differently
its not important anymore why they did it to him, hes the kind of DJ you guys need the oppinion of, it was a good idea to get him back behind beta versions doing good work.
i would LOVE to have a red vinyl for the red deck in the new VDJ skin and a blue vinyl for the blue deck! would make so much sense looking at the blue and red waveforms!
its not important anymore why they did it to him, hes the kind of DJ you guys need the oppinion of, it was a good idea to get him back behind beta versions doing good work.
i would LOVE to have a red vinyl for the red deck in the new VDJ skin and a blue vinyl for the blue deck! would make so much sense looking at the blue and red waveforms!
geposted Mon 16 Oct 06 @ 8:30 pm
asymptote
anewsome wrote :
Check the option "show pitched bpm" in the setup screen. The bpms will change on screen when you slide the pitch slider.
asymptote wrote :
When you change the tempo with SSL the tempo readout on the screen doesn't change to tell you what you've changed the tempo to. It just sticks with the original bpm as calculated by mixmeister. Plus the pitch of the song changes as you change the tempo. With VDJ it's dead easy. You can see in the readout what the actual bpm is as you change the pitch with the sliders.
When you change the tempo with SSL the tempo readout on the screen doesn't change to tell you what you've changed the tempo to. It just sticks with the original bpm as calculated by mixmeister. Plus the pitch of the song changes as you change the tempo. With VDJ it's dead easy. You can see in the readout what the actual bpm is as you change the pitch with the sliders.
Check the option "show pitched bpm" in the setup screen. The bpms will change on screen when you slide the pitch slider.
Just an update to what Anewsome said about the 'show pitched bpm' facility in SSL. It seems that facility was removed after version 1.4. The pitched bpm does actually show on the SSL screen in the middle of the circular part where the bar moves round in a circle. The only trouble is that it is in pale grey in very small font so is very very hard to read in a gig environment. They will probably change the font eventually. Also the font in the browser is very small too and it can't be changed. (I know that VDJ can't be changed within the software, but it can be changed in the Skin XML file.)
Still prefer VDJ after even more comparisons with SSL in different formations. Now that the sound quality is fixed it is great. But that's just my opinion.
geposted Mon 30 Oct 06 @ 5:43 pm
anewsome
DJ-ALF wrote :
Yes, welcome! Why you lose your vip status anyway? You were a bad boy :) ? lol
I lost VIP status becuase they thought I was with a competitor, which was false. I had just found some software that works better for me and I had begun to use that software for performance, I think it was some high-profile gigs with the other software that really did it.
geposted Thu 02 Nov 06 @ 7:35 pm
anewsome
Just got home from this tour. WOW, exhaustion. 6 cities in 6 days with ZERO days off. About 3 hours of sleep per night and a total of 14 plane rides. Different clubs, crowds, music prefferences, you name it. A lot of fun but very exhausting. I rolled to every club with only my gigskinz bag of goodies. Not a single equipment or software problem in any of the cities. All clubs, I'd never played at or seen before. A few comments on every city:
NYC - This one was at T New York. Probably the nicest (and largest) venue of them all. Some of the best sound and lights on the tour. Horrible mixer (I just hate rotary mixers) and horrible placement of the turntables in the DJ booth (a far reach). This was the only venue that I didn't use my Rane mixer. Decent crowd, not packed though.
Houston - This one was at Red Star Lounge. Nice crowd and the only venue that was 18 and over for girls, 21 and over for dudes. It was on a Friday night so naturally it was pretty packed. There was an artist who wanted to bring 6 body painted models to promote his body painting, so I can't really say that hot girls walking around naked with nothing but body paint was a bad thing. Actually it was pretty cool. Kind of a smallish club but the sound system was PUMPING. Used my Rane mixer since there mixer was a POS.
Orange County - This one was at the Atrium Hotel in Irvine so I had to provide and setup sound and lights (on 3 hours sleep). This event was absolutely INSANE. Over 3,500 people. 6 rooms, 6 different DJs and bands. Party hit capacity by 11pm and we had to turn away 2,000 people. I was the headliner in the main ballroom and it was PACKED from about 10pm to 2am. Go Go dancers on either side of me, hot chicks everywhere and basically just a crazy party scene. This event had the best sound and DJ setup, since it was all mine.
Chicago - This event was at Enclave. Kick ass venue. My favorite venue aesthetically BY FAR. So well done inside for atmosphere, VIP areas and furniture. Decent turnout of people, I got to play some "good" music and people were feeling it (instead of normal radio garbage). Super hot bartenders and go go dancers. This was also the only venue that understands the whole performance DJing thing. They did not have me play in the DJ booth (which 90% of them SUCK). They setup a stage at the edge of the dance floor with simply an 8 foot skirted table. They had some CDJs setup and playing a CD when I got there and I told them we need to get rid of those and get turntables in there ASAP. We did a live swap of a CDJ coffin with DJM-600, for turntables and my Rane mixer without missing a beat (crowd never knew the difference). I even beatmatched house music on the turntables while we switched the mains from the pioneer to my Rane one channel at a time. This was also the most fun venue since we shut it down early by 1.30am and headed over to LEVEL with the staff and partied til 4am! Chicago was a freaking BLAST!
Hollywood - This event was at Cinespace on Hollywood and Ivar. Very nice spot. I'd been there before but never to spin. Like most Hollywood clubs, they are already setup for Serato and like most Hollywood clubs they had a decent mixer (a Rane 56). I still went with my Rane mixer though. This was also the weakest event so I don't have much to say about it. Except they charged me for my drinks. Bastards.
Miami - Holy mother of all gigs. This one was at TANTRA in Miami. Holy crap this party was freaking INSANE. At 1AM we still had a line around the block. Awesome party people and everyone was FEELING EVERYTHING I was dropping. Hardly any requests through out the night, which is always nice. This was also the only event of the 6 where hot girls would frequently come to the DJ booth to get pictures with me. Nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately from an equipment standpoint, this was the most broken setup I'd ever seen. EVER in all my years of DJing. I don't know where to start, the rubber band mounted turntables, the rotary mixer,.. I don't know. I used my mixer but it was positioned just below my chin while standing. I'm not making this up. Also, the rubber band mounted turntables pretty much gauranteed there would be no scratching. Way too bouncy and skip prone, even in relative mode. I forgive all that since the bartenders hooked me up, party people were feeling it and I even got a nice phone number and hung out with a hottie for a bit after we closed the club.
All in all, a crazy trip. Got to see some nice places, so nice people and most of all I got to rock some pretty damn hot parties. Next year,.. video mixing!
http://www.modelween.com/
NYC - This one was at T New York. Probably the nicest (and largest) venue of them all. Some of the best sound and lights on the tour. Horrible mixer (I just hate rotary mixers) and horrible placement of the turntables in the DJ booth (a far reach). This was the only venue that I didn't use my Rane mixer. Decent crowd, not packed though.
Houston - This one was at Red Star Lounge. Nice crowd and the only venue that was 18 and over for girls, 21 and over for dudes. It was on a Friday night so naturally it was pretty packed. There was an artist who wanted to bring 6 body painted models to promote his body painting, so I can't really say that hot girls walking around naked with nothing but body paint was a bad thing. Actually it was pretty cool. Kind of a smallish club but the sound system was PUMPING. Used my Rane mixer since there mixer was a POS.
Orange County - This one was at the Atrium Hotel in Irvine so I had to provide and setup sound and lights (on 3 hours sleep). This event was absolutely INSANE. Over 3,500 people. 6 rooms, 6 different DJs and bands. Party hit capacity by 11pm and we had to turn away 2,000 people. I was the headliner in the main ballroom and it was PACKED from about 10pm to 2am. Go Go dancers on either side of me, hot chicks everywhere and basically just a crazy party scene. This event had the best sound and DJ setup, since it was all mine.
Chicago - This event was at Enclave. Kick ass venue. My favorite venue aesthetically BY FAR. So well done inside for atmosphere, VIP areas and furniture. Decent turnout of people, I got to play some "good" music and people were feeling it (instead of normal radio garbage). Super hot bartenders and go go dancers. This was also the only venue that understands the whole performance DJing thing. They did not have me play in the DJ booth (which 90% of them SUCK). They setup a stage at the edge of the dance floor with simply an 8 foot skirted table. They had some CDJs setup and playing a CD when I got there and I told them we need to get rid of those and get turntables in there ASAP. We did a live swap of a CDJ coffin with DJM-600, for turntables and my Rane mixer without missing a beat (crowd never knew the difference). I even beatmatched house music on the turntables while we switched the mains from the pioneer to my Rane one channel at a time. This was also the most fun venue since we shut it down early by 1.30am and headed over to LEVEL with the staff and partied til 4am! Chicago was a freaking BLAST!
Hollywood - This event was at Cinespace on Hollywood and Ivar. Very nice spot. I'd been there before but never to spin. Like most Hollywood clubs, they are already setup for Serato and like most Hollywood clubs they had a decent mixer (a Rane 56). I still went with my Rane mixer though. This was also the weakest event so I don't have much to say about it. Except they charged me for my drinks. Bastards.
Miami - Holy mother of all gigs. This one was at TANTRA in Miami. Holy crap this party was freaking INSANE. At 1AM we still had a line around the block. Awesome party people and everyone was FEELING EVERYTHING I was dropping. Hardly any requests through out the night, which is always nice. This was also the only event of the 6 where hot girls would frequently come to the DJ booth to get pictures with me. Nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately from an equipment standpoint, this was the most broken setup I'd ever seen. EVER in all my years of DJing. I don't know where to start, the rubber band mounted turntables, the rotary mixer,.. I don't know. I used my mixer but it was positioned just below my chin while standing. I'm not making this up. Also, the rubber band mounted turntables pretty much gauranteed there would be no scratching. Way too bouncy and skip prone, even in relative mode. I forgive all that since the bartenders hooked me up, party people were feeling it and I even got a nice phone number and hung out with a hottie for a bit after we closed the club.
All in all, a crazy trip. Got to see some nice places, so nice people and most of all I got to rock some pretty damn hot parties. Next year,.. video mixing!
http://www.modelween.com/
geposted Thu 02 Nov 06 @ 8:14 pm
