junito42
Hello all,
I am looking into a solution in scratching and blending my tunes. I am very use to vinyl and though my MK2 is very cool, I am not getting the control I'd like in manipulating the jog wheel.
I have been looking at the Pioneer CDJ 400 and the Denon s1200. Like the look of the Pioneer. I am going to GC today and get a look-feel-see.
I would prefer something like the Vestax 100, but I have seen others with issues with the jog wheels. However a unit such as that with a cool mixer and excellent jog wheel action to emulate vinyl control is what I'd prefer.
I want to put the focus on the Pioneer in this topic so:
Can i get feedback on those individuals who are using the 400 as a controller?
I have a separate dedicated sound card, however can I get feedback from those too you are using the Pioneer, (or Denon s1200) as both controller and sound-card?
I am really looking to have manipulation as close to vinyl at no more than $700.00 duckets!
Thanks.
I am looking into a solution in scratching and blending my tunes. I am very use to vinyl and though my MK2 is very cool, I am not getting the control I'd like in manipulating the jog wheel.
I have been looking at the Pioneer CDJ 400 and the Denon s1200. Like the look of the Pioneer. I am going to GC today and get a look-feel-see.
I would prefer something like the Vestax 100, but I have seen others with issues with the jog wheels. However a unit such as that with a cool mixer and excellent jog wheel action to emulate vinyl control is what I'd prefer.
I want to put the focus on the Pioneer in this topic so:
Can i get feedback on those individuals who are using the 400 as a controller?
I have a separate dedicated sound card, however can I get feedback from those too you are using the Pioneer, (or Denon s1200) as both controller and sound-card?
I am really looking to have manipulation as close to vinyl at no more than $700.00 duckets!
Thanks.
geposted Tue 09 Dec 08 @ 9:03 am
Tear Em 'Up
The CDJ400 is a soundcard also, I had one for a while and was less than thrilled with it. As a CD player it was very good, but as a midi controller it left me wanting more. I have two iCDX set up that works pretty well for my needs,and style. I would recommend bringing your laptop with you and plug it in to some controllers and play with them a bit.....
geposted Tue 09 Dec 08 @ 9:07 am
junito42
Yes, I have seen the Numarks and they look cool. I'll bring the laptop and see what transpires. Thanks for your feedback.
geposted Tue 09 Dec 08 @ 9:15 am
junito42
hello TearEmUp,
Saw the Numarks and they look cool. I like the blue light set up, I am into gadgety light stuff. I see that it runs very well with Cue, which looks just like VDJ and my hunch is that the ICDX will work very well with VDJ. There are loads of videos in youtube where it appears that the ICDX handles well for scratching. I scratch a bit, however I do more cueing and slowing down, moving up of the "platter" so to speak. that is the type of control I am seeking. I would imagine that the ICDX is a big leap forward in comparison to the jogs on the micro Hercules MP3.
Saw the Numarks and they look cool. I like the blue light set up, I am into gadgety light stuff. I see that it runs very well with Cue, which looks just like VDJ and my hunch is that the ICDX will work very well with VDJ. There are loads of videos in youtube where it appears that the ICDX handles well for scratching. I scratch a bit, however I do more cueing and slowing down, moving up of the "platter" so to speak. that is the type of control I am seeking. I would imagine that the ICDX is a big leap forward in comparison to the jogs on the micro Hercules MP3.
geposted Tue 09 Dec 08 @ 12:20 pm
Tear Em 'Up
Yeah they are nice, and you can use just one to control both "decks" in VDJ/CUE. I really enjoy mine...Good luck...T
geposted Tue 09 Dec 08 @ 1:01 pm
junito42
I'll let you know how it goes...thanks.
geposted Tue 09 Dec 08 @ 1:03 pm
DJBrandonJames
I have 2 cdj-400's and VDJ and here are my issues. There is a substantial difference between the scratching response in USB mode with VDJ vs. CD mode. I also wish i could select cue points in VDJ with the 400 as hitting the cue on the 400 always reverts back to Cue 1. I even tried to midi map overide the cue button so it would cue back to the current cue with no luck. Also a video crossfade command would be a welcome addition.
other than that they work pretty well. i do have occasional problems with the soundcards (distortaion on one but the other plays fine). but i have yet to run them in asio mode. So i will reserve my comments on that for a later time.
other than that they work pretty well. i do have occasional problems with the soundcards (distortaion on one but the other plays fine). but i have yet to run them in asio mode. So i will reserve my comments on that for a later time.
geposted Sun 21 Dec 08 @ 4:41 am
DJBrandonJames
ok after an extensive test of the cdj-400's here are my findings:
Machine:
asus gs1
vista sp1
4 gig ddr2
centrino duo t7300
nvidia 256 8600m gt
all bloatware removed
I have used this machine for 1 year now with a gigaport ag (in wdm mode) and a dac3 and it works perfect. MT is 1-0 and scratch algo is advanced with 11 no filter smooth. can pitch +100 - -100 perfectly.
Vidz are a mix of 20 % mp4 (h264)
30% mpg 2
and 50% divx avi (720 x 480 320 mp3 stream) (they play the best)
All are on an external 2 TB firewire drive.
some residencies that i spin have a HC-4500
so i have the 1.01 denon asio driver installed.
performance with the denon asio driver is terrible. as long as i have a 512 buffer, and a simple scratch algo and auto selected in performance it's ok but the tempo stretch sucks because it's on fast scratch MT algo. If i put it on advanced it's distortion city.
i attribute this to the denon asio driver not being very good. (yes safe mode and overclock is unchecked) I have used it on other systems and i think it need some work.
so i add the 400's to my mix. I first ran them in wdm. with 512 latency, Sound ok but the scratch latency is not sharp enough.
so here is my tests:
this is setup outputs->mixer -> 2 soundcards cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 512, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected
result: OK occasional rice krispies and not quick on response, distortion in h264 but occasional in DIVX and MPG 2. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer -> 2 soundcards cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 256, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 conected.
result: rice krispies all over especially when back cueing with the platter. Distortion in all file types, but less in DIVx and MPG 2. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer -> asio cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 512 in pioneer asio driver, auto in vdj, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result: not bad no crackle but still not quick enough. divx files = occasional distoration, mpg2 = no prob, mp4 (h264) = regular distortion. However the static does subside if u turn the MT off . Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer -> asio cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 256 in pioneer asio driver, auto in vdj, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result: response is good but i get rice krispies when scratching a back cueing on the other player. close but no cigar. divx files = distortion in and out , mpg2 = distortion when using platter, mp4 (h264) = forget it. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
SO
I hook up my old trusty gigaport in wdm 4.1 mode.buffer in VDJ=512, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result= no distortion, a little better in response but i would still like it to be faster. divx files = no prob, mpg2 = no prob, mp4 (h264) = No Problem. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer ->gigaport 4.1, buffer= 256 in VDJ, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result: Nice, no snap, crackle pop when playing and scratching and the scratch response is nice. this is with all file types. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
I can only imagine what the gigaport asio driver will yield. I'll let you know. However i am and have always been under the impression that asio is really only good for time code applications, as it was developed for VST technology which needs a low latency thru put for playing and recording.
this machine has 4 usb ports so no hub was used.
it's also tuned for daw/ dj audio use.
My conclusion:
stick a cd in the 400's and u will see how sick they really are. (Don't believe me do a search on u tube with q-bert scratching on the 400). that's the type of performance i would like to see implemented with the 400 and VDJ. well it least close to it.
The cdj-400(s) when used an a controller only with a separate sound card will yield the best results. I think (and i could be wrong) that because USB is a burst and cpu dependent technology it has a real problem receiving and transmitting information at the same time. So i think that concentrating peripherals for inputs (ie the cdj-400's) and concentrating a sound card for output will yield the best results,
Thank god my machine has 4 usb ports. Now i need to find an external PS for my chill pad. However i feel bad for those who have less usb inputs as running thru a USB hub is not the best idea. An express card with extra ports would prob be a better alternative.
If anyone has the 400's working almost like cd mode with the internal sound cards please respond and tell me what i am doing wrong. I like them but they aren't delivering what i expected. They are close but not quite perfect. And if i can set them up with the same performance that i am getting with my gigaport that would be so nice, so i can keep an open usb on my machine. I really wish that pioneer came up with a way that 2 400's could hook together and connect to the machine with one usb.
Machine:
asus gs1
vista sp1
4 gig ddr2
centrino duo t7300
nvidia 256 8600m gt
all bloatware removed
I have used this machine for 1 year now with a gigaport ag (in wdm mode) and a dac3 and it works perfect. MT is 1-0 and scratch algo is advanced with 11 no filter smooth. can pitch +100 - -100 perfectly.
Vidz are a mix of 20 % mp4 (h264)
30% mpg 2
and 50% divx avi (720 x 480 320 mp3 stream) (they play the best)
All are on an external 2 TB firewire drive.
some residencies that i spin have a HC-4500
so i have the 1.01 denon asio driver installed.
performance with the denon asio driver is terrible. as long as i have a 512 buffer, and a simple scratch algo and auto selected in performance it's ok but the tempo stretch sucks because it's on fast scratch MT algo. If i put it on advanced it's distortion city.
i attribute this to the denon asio driver not being very good. (yes safe mode and overclock is unchecked) I have used it on other systems and i think it need some work.
so i add the 400's to my mix. I first ran them in wdm. with 512 latency, Sound ok but the scratch latency is not sharp enough.
so here is my tests:
this is setup outputs->mixer -> 2 soundcards cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 512, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected
result: OK occasional rice krispies and not quick on response, distortion in h264 but occasional in DIVX and MPG 2. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer -> 2 soundcards cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 256, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 conected.
result: rice krispies all over especially when back cueing with the platter. Distortion in all file types, but less in DIVx and MPG 2. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer -> asio cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 512 in pioneer asio driver, auto in vdj, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result: not bad no crackle but still not quick enough. divx files = occasional distoration, mpg2 = no prob, mp4 (h264) = regular distortion. However the static does subside if u turn the MT off . Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer -> asio cdj 400 1, 2 . buffer= 256 in pioneer asio driver, auto in vdj, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result: response is good but i get rice krispies when scratching a back cueing on the other player. close but no cigar. divx files = distortion in and out , mpg2 = distortion when using platter, mp4 (h264) = forget it. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
SO
I hook up my old trusty gigaport in wdm 4.1 mode.buffer in VDJ=512, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result= no distortion, a little better in response but i would still like it to be faster. divx files = no prob, mpg2 = no prob, mp4 (h264) = No Problem. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
next
this is setup outputs->mixer ->gigaport 4.1, buffer= 256 in VDJ, Master Tempo 1,0 , scratch algo advanced, 11. dac 3 connected.
result: Nice, no snap, crackle pop when playing and scratching and the scratch response is nice. this is with all file types. Disconnect dac3 no difference.
I can only imagine what the gigaport asio driver will yield. I'll let you know. However i am and have always been under the impression that asio is really only good for time code applications, as it was developed for VST technology which needs a low latency thru put for playing and recording.
this machine has 4 usb ports so no hub was used.
it's also tuned for daw/ dj audio use.
My conclusion:
stick a cd in the 400's and u will see how sick they really are. (Don't believe me do a search on u tube with q-bert scratching on the 400). that's the type of performance i would like to see implemented with the 400 and VDJ. well it least close to it.
The cdj-400(s) when used an a controller only with a separate sound card will yield the best results. I think (and i could be wrong) that because USB is a burst and cpu dependent technology it has a real problem receiving and transmitting information at the same time. So i think that concentrating peripherals for inputs (ie the cdj-400's) and concentrating a sound card for output will yield the best results,
Thank god my machine has 4 usb ports. Now i need to find an external PS for my chill pad. However i feel bad for those who have less usb inputs as running thru a USB hub is not the best idea. An express card with extra ports would prob be a better alternative.
If anyone has the 400's working almost like cd mode with the internal sound cards please respond and tell me what i am doing wrong. I like them but they aren't delivering what i expected. They are close but not quite perfect. And if i can set them up with the same performance that i am getting with my gigaport that would be so nice, so i can keep an open usb on my machine. I really wish that pioneer came up with a way that 2 400's could hook together and connect to the machine with one usb.
geposted Sun 21 Dec 08 @ 8:57 am
DJBrandonJames
oh and one more preanswer, i have run the dsp latency checker and i am green across the board.
geposted Sun 21 Dec 08 @ 9:08 am