andytaylor125
I gotta say, I'm sure the screen on the denon isn't perfect but as far as I can see there are generally two types of DJ that will use the CDJs (either pioneer or denon):
First is a specialist DJ with a reasonably small number of tunes (maybe 500 or somethig) so they'll put their tunes on a memory stick or two and use the on-screen controls. In this scenario yeah the pioneers would be easier to use, but the denons would still be more than usable.
The second is the commercial DJ who has like 10,000 tunes on his external hard drive. Let's be honest, no matter good the screen is on the pioneer, I wouldn't fancy searching through 10 000 songs to find that perfect next tune (and the one before only has 15 seconds left to play of course!)on either CDJ without a keyboard to type in song names. So for commercial DJs, you'd want something with a keyboard anyway. Whether that's Virtual DJ and use the CDJs as a controller, Pioneer Recordbox plugged into your laptop with a LAN cable, the Denon software on your laptop connected through a LAN cable or an iPad through your wireless router for the denons - if you're a commercial DJ with lots of tunes you'll want something extra no matter which system you go for.
As it happens a friend of mine has recently gone for some CDJ2000s and is using recordbox on his laptop to load the tunes over a LAN cable and it's working great for him (I just think he's a fool for spending so much money when I can do more on my £700 vci400 lol).
So pretty much the smaller screen on the denon isn't a deal breaker - especially when you think about the cost difference. Let's be honest though, the big superclubs will be installing the Pioneers regardless for quite a few years yet so the whole debate only applies to mobile DJs, home DJs and bars that have a tighter budget.
First is a specialist DJ with a reasonably small number of tunes (maybe 500 or somethig) so they'll put their tunes on a memory stick or two and use the on-screen controls. In this scenario yeah the pioneers would be easier to use, but the denons would still be more than usable.
The second is the commercial DJ who has like 10,000 tunes on his external hard drive. Let's be honest, no matter good the screen is on the pioneer, I wouldn't fancy searching through 10 000 songs to find that perfect next tune (and the one before only has 15 seconds left to play of course!)on either CDJ without a keyboard to type in song names. So for commercial DJs, you'd want something with a keyboard anyway. Whether that's Virtual DJ and use the CDJs as a controller, Pioneer Recordbox plugged into your laptop with a LAN cable, the Denon software on your laptop connected through a LAN cable or an iPad through your wireless router for the denons - if you're a commercial DJ with lots of tunes you'll want something extra no matter which system you go for.
As it happens a friend of mine has recently gone for some CDJ2000s and is using recordbox on his laptop to load the tunes over a LAN cable and it's working great for him (I just think he's a fool for spending so much money when I can do more on my £700 vci400 lol).
So pretty much the smaller screen on the denon isn't a deal breaker - especially when you think about the cost difference. Let's be honest though, the big superclubs will be installing the Pioneers regardless for quite a few years yet so the whole debate only applies to mobile DJs, home DJs and bars that have a tighter budget.
geposted Tue 05 Jun 12 @ 11:53 am
groovindj
This is why many DJs (including me) were asking Denon to fit an output for an external screen to their media players, so we were not limited by the physical size of the player and the available space on it.
Instead of doing that, they downgraded the onboard screen and decided to add networking (a la CDJs) that requires a laptop, wireless router and/or iPad - much more expensive than an LCD monitor screen, and requires more setup/config.
The screen on the HS5500 is reasonable for multimedia use. It could just do with being wider, so long track names would be visible without needing to scroll. What I do is use VDJ purely as a browser, pick a tune then use the keyboard plugged into the 5500 to find the tune and load it. Takes seconds.
If the screen was larger (or external) then I wouldn't need to use the laptop at all, which is my goal really.
Instead of doing that, they downgraded the onboard screen and decided to add networking (a la CDJs) that requires a laptop, wireless router and/or iPad - much more expensive than an LCD monitor screen, and requires more setup/config.
The screen on the HS5500 is reasonable for multimedia use. It could just do with being wider, so long track names would be visible without needing to scroll. What I do is use VDJ purely as a browser, pick a tune then use the keyboard plugged into the 5500 to find the tune and load it. Takes seconds.
If the screen was larger (or external) then I wouldn't need to use the laptop at all, which is my goal really.
geposted Tue 05 Jun 12 @ 11:57 am
tomvassie
Kinda board of the small screen bitchin...
Got my SC2900's yesterday, CDJ1000's went today! fantastic player, and really, a small router and an iPad isn't much of an extra layout.
And just out of interest, who wants to carry a PC monitor around with them! not exactly 'portable'
You will be impressed if you buy a set of these!
Got my SC2900's yesterday, CDJ1000's went today! fantastic player, and really, a small router and an iPad isn't much of an extra layout.
And just out of interest, who wants to carry a PC monitor around with them! not exactly 'portable'
You will be impressed if you buy a set of these!
geposted Sat 21 Jul 12 @ 12:28 pm
Charlie Wilson
I thought Denons main selling point was the fun motorised platter they use.
geposted Sat 21 Jul 12 @ 3:09 pm
Caliente123
The 3700's and 3900 are great players for anyone that wants a Motorized platter. The 2900 are aimed at the new pioneer cdjs. The screen is not as good as pioneer but, How many djs out there mix the music thats on a thumb drive ? Its very few compared to the many that still preffer to use a laptop. It feels more comfortable to use a laptop because of its bigger screen. If Djs didnt use a laptop to Mix, Then having a bigger screen on the denons would be more important.
geposted Sat 21 Jul 12 @ 11:00 pm
groovindj
tomvassie wrote :
who wants to carry a PC monitor around with them! not exactly 'portable'
Are you really trying to convince me that a laptop + external PSU, a bunch of network cables and a wireless router + external PSU is more portable?
The ideal would be to have a decent screen on the player itself so that an external screen isn't required. A standalone player should be just that - no external things required.
Next best would be an output for an external screen, so that it's possible to use just a screen with the player(s).
This reliance on a whole heap of external gubbins to provide functionality that should be onboard is crazy IMO.
Look at the mess behind this setup:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/21063561/sc2900_madrid_f.jpg
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 9:29 am
Charlie Wilson
You can make this job as hard or as easy as you want, keeping up with technology isn't always a good thing.
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 10:13 am
Caliente123
Having a setup with so many wires and a router is crazy. I wouldnt go thru all that.
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 11:13 am
kradcliffe
Guys,
I've changed the title of the thread from SV2900 to SC2900, just to avoid any confusion with the actual model number.
Keith
I've changed the title of the thread from SV2900 to SC2900, just to avoid any confusion with the actual model number.
Keith
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 12:13 pm
SBDJ
Well if you're using a laptop then you don't need a router, just a little switch will be more than enough. One cable (excluding audio) to each device isn't exactly a lot. Wireless is only required if you want to use an iDevice.
If you're using them as standalone players you don't even need the network surely?
If you're just connecting two players then you can use a network crossover cable between them, no hub, switch or router required.
IMHO there isn't a great amount between having an external monitor and a laptop. For the external monitor you still need VGA + power (and then probably a keyboard too). For the laptop you need LAN + Power.
Groovin - what about the Pioneer decks - CDJ-900 for example? The CDJ-2000 has a very usable screen IMHO.
If you're using them as standalone players you don't even need the network surely?
If you're just connecting two players then you can use a network crossover cable between them, no hub, switch or router required.
IMHO there isn't a great amount between having an external monitor and a laptop. For the external monitor you still need VGA + power (and then probably a keyboard too). For the laptop you need LAN + Power.
Groovin - what about the Pioneer decks - CDJ-900 for example? The CDJ-2000 has a very usable screen IMHO.
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 12:15 pm
groovindj
Scott - the way Denon have designed things, the router (or switch) is required.
Standard setup would be two players, yes? In order to network both to the computer (in order to run Engine for searching) you need the router. Each player only has one RJ45 socket, and the majority of computers only have one.
Without networking them (and hence needing a router) the ability to search a large library is severely limited by the onboard CD player style screen. Denon removed the ability to connect an external USB hub and the ability to search using a keyboard.
Previous Denon kit such as the HD2500 and the HS5500 were moving forward in terms of media playback on standalone kit, by having onboard hard drives, screens suited to browsing/searching, keyboard input etc.
It just bugs me that they now appear to be going backwards.
Pioneer got it right with their new CDJ range. Users have a choice of either coupling the players to a computer and using Rekordbox, or using the players standalone. OK there's still no keyboard input but the screens are much more suited to the tasks required.
The justifications (excuses) that Denon have been coming up with for their decisions are laughable!
For instance, saying that a colour screen would have cost $1000 extra (because the CDJ2000 costs $1000 more than an SC2900!).....
Standard setup would be two players, yes? In order to network both to the computer (in order to run Engine for searching) you need the router. Each player only has one RJ45 socket, and the majority of computers only have one.
Without networking them (and hence needing a router) the ability to search a large library is severely limited by the onboard CD player style screen. Denon removed the ability to connect an external USB hub and the ability to search using a keyboard.
Previous Denon kit such as the HD2500 and the HS5500 were moving forward in terms of media playback on standalone kit, by having onboard hard drives, screens suited to browsing/searching, keyboard input etc.
It just bugs me that they now appear to be going backwards.
Pioneer got it right with their new CDJ range. Users have a choice of either coupling the players to a computer and using Rekordbox, or using the players standalone. OK there's still no keyboard input but the screens are much more suited to the tasks required.
The justifications (excuses) that Denon have been coming up with for their decisions are laughable!
For instance, saying that a colour screen would have cost $1000 extra (because the CDJ2000 costs $1000 more than an SC2900!).....
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 12:42 pm
Caliente123
@ GroovinDJ. The pioneer cdj is a Nice deck but, how many djs actually have the new decks..? Not many because its expensive. When you design something, you also have to consider the cost. You have to make it affordable and also consider the way the majority of djs have there setups hooked up. Why add a bigger screen if the Majority preffers a laptop to read all there music files. Supposed they did have a bigger screen.. Wouldnt it be nicer if they added Virtual DJ internally so you can have all music folders and cue points ? That would be hot but Expensive. A laptop is very effective and great for having easier access to your music. You can see More at once.
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 3:31 pm
groovindj
Firstly you can't make a sweeping statement like "the majority prefer laptops"....
There are a lot of DJs who prefer to work with dedicated professional hardware, not something designed for using at home or in the office.
If the leading manufacturers though that everybody used laptops, they'd only be making USB controllers surely?
But no, they're making big solid standalone players too.
Remember that Denon have already made players with better screens than the current models.
The HS5500s that I still use cost me less than the S3700, the SC3900 or the new SC2900, yet the screen is more suited to the job than the later models.
If they could do it then, they could do it now. Instead they fitted an inferior screen and are charging more for it.
In comparison the Pioneer CDJ-900 has a better screen and is almost the same price as the SC2900.
There are a lot of DJs who prefer to work with dedicated professional hardware, not something designed for using at home or in the office.
If the leading manufacturers though that everybody used laptops, they'd only be making USB controllers surely?
But no, they're making big solid standalone players too.
Remember that Denon have already made players with better screens than the current models.
The HS5500s that I still use cost me less than the S3700, the SC3900 or the new SC2900, yet the screen is more suited to the job than the later models.
If they could do it then, they could do it now. Instead they fitted an inferior screen and are charging more for it.
In comparison the Pioneer CDJ-900 has a better screen and is almost the same price as the SC2900.
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 3:58 pm
synthet1c
back in my day we didn't have these fancy screens, or computers doing all the work for us. We had vinyl and our memory which was shot from all the drinking and other stuff, then moved up to CDJ1000's that could only play 1 audio cd and only a small dot matrix screen, and we dj'd just fine then... :-P
I stand behind Caliente's statement about controllers being the preferred medium, but I bet Denon are hedging their bets that controllers will remain the same quality in construction (throw away) and eventually all the kids with mixtracks who keep djing are going to want to upgrade to real hardware, and with a price, construction and feature set that this offers it will be a Pioneer CDJ850 killer, and people would think twice about the 900.
I stand behind Caliente's statement about controllers being the preferred medium, but I bet Denon are hedging their bets that controllers will remain the same quality in construction (throw away) and eventually all the kids with mixtracks who keep djing are going to want to upgrade to real hardware, and with a price, construction and feature set that this offers it will be a Pioneer CDJ850 killer, and people would think twice about the 900.
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 5:55 pm
Caliente123
Do you think the few that preffer not to use a laptop counts for more than the Majority ? It will be very hard to replace a laptop because No Midi deck can run your favorite software as a standalone without using a PC or mac. Even if they did find a way, You still need a bigger screen than the pioneers and now.. You will say the deck is TOO BIG. Theres No HDMI Cable Out, Theres No Usb out, I cant DJ Music Videos because the deck doesnt have a dedicated video card. Thats why a Laptop will be Hard to be replaced..
geposted Sun 22 Jul 12 @ 11:02 pm
groovindj
Caliente123 wrote :
the few that preffer not to use a laptop
Where are you getting this "few" figure from?
When I attend DJ shows such as BPM each year, I don't just see laptops and controllers - I see a wide range of hardware that works without a computer anywhere near. The hardware guys are not a minority!
Caliente123 wrote :
It will be very hard to replace a laptop
It will be very hard to replace a laptop
It's already been done. There have been products around for years that don't require a laptop. One of the first (if not the first) was the Numark HDCD1. Then there was the D2 Director and DDS system, the Denon HD2500, Denon HS5500, the Stanton SCS.4DJ.........
Caliente123 wrote :
Theres No HDMI Cable Out
Theres No HDMI Cable Out
Believe me many DJs pleaded with Denon to fit a HDMI output so that a larger screen can be attached. Denon say they "listened to what DJs wanted" (but the result was the current models).
Right now there are DJs commenting on their forum asking why there's not a bigger/better screen, and being given all sorts of excuses.
Anyway, perhaps one day someone will produce a product that is better that what I have now. When they do, I'll buy it!
geposted Mon 23 Jul 12 @ 5:15 am
Charlie Wilson
I dont think you'll ever get a big enough screen on a player to be able to scroll comfortably however they could supply a HDMI input for external use, tight bas*ar*s.
geposted Mon 23 Jul 12 @ 12:24 pm
groovindj
Have you never scrolled through a list of songs on an iPod Touch?
It's only a 4.5" screen (actually smaller than the one on the Denon HS5500) but it's the GUI that makes it so usable, not the screen size.
Even browsing songs on my phone is easy, and that's only a 2.5" screen with a limited set of controls.
A touch screen on a DJ player is OTT but the above examples show that it's far from difficult to make a small screen show a lot of info.
Satnavs are another good example. Oh, and the screen on the Samsung Galaxy S3 phone is gorgeous!
It's only a 4.5" screen (actually smaller than the one on the Denon HS5500) but it's the GUI that makes it so usable, not the screen size.
Even browsing songs on my phone is easy, and that's only a 2.5" screen with a limited set of controls.
A touch screen on a DJ player is OTT but the above examples show that it's far from difficult to make a small screen show a lot of info.
Satnavs are another good example. Oh, and the screen on the Samsung Galaxy S3 phone is gorgeous!
geposted Mon 23 Jul 12 @ 1:02 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
OMG, Get over it already, your preaching to the wrong choir.......... All of this should be over on the manufacturer site or forum or where ever it is you complain at........
geposted Mon 23 Jul 12 @ 2:46 pm
Charlie Wilson
When DJing I like to use most played, bpm, year etc. So I wouldn't be into it personally.
geposted Mon 23 Jul 12 @ 2:46 pm
